You're not getting the kind of response you'd have hoped for on here either are you? Your posting on this thread and others comes across as self-centred, buy-the-line whinging. Have you considered that maybe it's the way you word things that leads to the reactions that you get?
Cost of living crisis
Moderators: Gnome, last.caress, Wilko1304, Rio, bristolhammerfc, the pink palermo, chalks
- DaveWHU1964
- Posts: 14882
- Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:14 am
- Has liked: 1296 likes
- Total likes: 684 likes
Re: Cost of living crisis
- DaveWHU1964
- Posts: 14882
- Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:14 am
- Has liked: 1296 likes
- Total likes: 684 likes
Re: Cost of living crisis
Did this get mentioned on here already?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 06600.html
After the logic of abandoning the triple lock last year it would have been even more justified this year so this is obviously a bribe to keep sweet one of the few blocks of voters this government have left that it can rely on.
I'm not against pensioners having this sort of increase but to do this for them whilst at the same time telling the rest of us to show restraint doesn't make those who push this line sound coherent, logical or likely to be listened to.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 06600.html
After the logic of abandoning the triple lock last year it would have been even more justified this year so this is obviously a bribe to keep sweet one of the few blocks of voters this government have left that it can rely on.
I'm not against pensioners having this sort of increase but to do this for them whilst at the same time telling the rest of us to show restraint doesn't make those who push this line sound coherent, logical or likely to be listened to.
- Shabu
- Posts: 12086
- Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:38 am
- Location: San Diego, CA
- Has liked: 4187 likes
- Total likes: 2050 likes
Re: Cost of living crisis
He comes across as a proper ****er. I'm still not sure if he insulted my missus or black people in one previous post. It was definitely one or the other but when I asked him he blanked it.DaveWHU1964 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:08 pm You're not getting the kind of response you'd have hoped for on here either are you? Your posting on this thread and others comes across as self-centred, buy-the-line whinging. Have you considered that maybe it's the way you word things that leads to the reactions that you get?
- Turns to Stone
- Posts: 15521
- Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:21 am
- Location: Tony Almeida
- Has liked: 233 likes
- Total likes: 1504 likes
Re: Cost of living crisis
I must admit, I've spent my life travelling by train. Looking back, I can tell you that the times that I've been arsey with the workers have been because of one of two things:-
1. Their trains are too expensive (not their fault)
2. My own mistakes in buying the wrong ticket/missing a train etc (not their fault)
I'm a pretty laid back chap, but I can think of a few times when I've laid into workers because of both those things, and I imagine they're getting that all day long from people.
It's a thankless task, but I've had far more positive experiences with staff than negative ones. I'm absolutely on their side.
1. Their trains are too expensive (not their fault)
2. My own mistakes in buying the wrong ticket/missing a train etc (not their fault)
I'm a pretty laid back chap, but I can think of a few times when I've laid into workers because of both those things, and I imagine they're getting that all day long from people.
It's a thankless task, but I've had far more positive experiences with staff than negative ones. I'm absolutely on their side.
Re: Cost of living crisis
im actually very surprised how many of the public are on there sideTurns to Stone wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:58 am I must admit, I've spent my life travelling by train. Looking back, I can tell you that the times that I've been arsey with the workers have been because of one of two things:-
1. Their trains are too expensive (not their fault)
2. My own mistakes in buying the wrong ticket/missing a train etc (not their fault)
I'm a pretty laid back chap, but I can think of a few times when I've laid into workers because of both those things, and I imagine they're getting that all day long from people.
It's a thankless task, but I've had far more positive experiences with staff than negative ones. I'm absolutely on their side.
maybe its because network rail dont strike often..
however you still get the odd hard line tory voter or the anti union brigade who are deluded enough to think without unions the big companies would give workers a fair chance just because its the nice thing to do
but they are just away with the fairies god bless em
- Turns to Stone
- Posts: 15521
- Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:21 am
- Location: Tony Almeida
- Has liked: 233 likes
- Total likes: 1504 likes
Re: Cost of living crisis
I think we have a tendency to take some things for granted in this country - and because many of us might stop using something at a certain point in our life, we stop thinking about it and believe that we could all do with out it.mumbles87 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:16 am im actually very surprised how many of the public are on there side
maybe its because network rail dont strike often..
however you still get the odd hard line tory voter or the anti union brigade who are deluded enough to think without unions the big companies would give workers a fair chance just because its the nice thing to do
but they are just away with the fairies god bless em
The NHS, the BBC, Trains - I think a lot of things that many people can often go months or even years without using, and as such people wonder why you should bother. The truth is that so many of us rely in this things at various points in our lives that we should all be on board with them. They ar also the ones that usually are the first to be attacked. Which tells me that they are the ones that we should fight hardest to keep.
Online
- SammyLeeWasOffside
- Posts: 21823
- Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:31 am
- Has liked: 310 likes
- Total likes: 1085 likes
Re: Cost of living crisis
Hopefully someone (probably mumbles) can help here.
Isn't this really a number of disputes in one action? Tfl v London mayor, network rail about safety v modernisation and RMT v rail companies?
If so can one negotiation solve all the disputes?
Isn't this really a number of disputes in one action? Tfl v London mayor, network rail about safety v modernisation and RMT v rail companies?
If so can one negotiation solve all the disputes?
Online
When you say on board, we pay to use the services provided. That's really the only way to be on board with them. Clapping the rail workers won't make up the 4% difference in pay offer. So when prices go up to pay them more will those in support now still be or will they grumble as much as they did when asked to get on board with the nhs and social care last April.
- SammyLeeWasOffside
- Posts: 21823
- Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:31 am
- Has liked: 310 likes
- Total likes: 1085 likes
Re: Cost of living crisis
Isn't that true of all sorts of things that we sit and watch disappear.Turns to Stone wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:31 am The NHS, the BBC, Trains - I think a lot of things that many people can often go months or even years without using, and as such people wonder why you should bother. The truth is that so many of us rely in this things at various points in our lives that we should all be on board with them.
When you say on board, we pay to use the services provided. That's really the only way to be on board with them. Clapping the rail workers won't make up the 4% difference in pay offer. So when prices go up to pay them more will those in support now still be or will they grumble as much as they did when asked to get on board with the nhs and social care last April.
Online
- Junco Partner
- Posts: 12477
- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:03 pm
- Location: Paquetta, he's played it through...and Bowen's in...ITS UP FOR GRABS NOW!"
- Has liked: 562 likes
- Total likes: 921 likes
- Contact:
Re: Cost of living crisis
Prices don’t necessarily go up to pay for it though, not when there’s hundreds of millions of pounds of profit being made even on the reduced passenger flow after COVID.
Compare an organisation whose key, sometimes sole, and only legal purpose is to maximise returns for shareholders versus a publicly mandated organisation whose key purpose is to transport our citizens around as safely, cleanly and affordably as possible and the case for the latter is made.
Unfortunately, after decades of ideological restructuring we’ve got a bizarre mish-mash of various forms of the former that a mad man wouldn’t dream into existence.
Compare an organisation whose key, sometimes sole, and only legal purpose is to maximise returns for shareholders versus a publicly mandated organisation whose key purpose is to transport our citizens around as safely, cleanly and affordably as possible and the case for the latter is made.
Unfortunately, after decades of ideological restructuring we’ve got a bizarre mish-mash of various forms of the former that a mad man wouldn’t dream into existence.
- chelmsfordhammer91
- Posts: 3023
- Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:59 pm
- Location: Broomfield, Chelmsford
- Has liked: 891 likes
- Total likes: 578 likes
Re: Cost of living crisis
Not having a dig as I get what your point is, but this part isn't strictly correct.Junco Partner wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:54 am an organisation whose key, sometimes sole, and only legal purpose is to maximise returns for shareholders
Although the Companies Act 2006 says:
A director of a company must act in the way he considers, in good faith, would be most likely to promote the success of the company for the benefit of its members as a whole
It also adds:
and in doing so have regard (amongst other matters) to–
(a)the likely consequences of any decision in the long term,
(b)the interests of the company’s employees,
(c)the need to foster the company’s business relationships with suppliers, customers and others,
(d)the impact of the company’s operations on the community and the environment,
(e)the desirability of the company maintaining a reputation for high standards of business conduct, and
(f)the need to act fairly as between members of the company.
(2)Where or to the extent that the purposes of the company consist of or include purposes other than the benefit of its members, subsection (1) has effect as if the reference to promoting the success of the company for the benefit of its members were to achieving those purposes.
(3)The duty imposed by this section has effect subject to any enactment or rule of law requiring directors, in certain circumstances, to consider or act in the interests of creditors of the company.
It is quite subjective on a few of those points, but gives enough scope for non-government organisations to have an obligation to not be total c*nts.
I have no personal experience with unions, but support the workers on this one. After reading up more about the history of unions in the UK and what it has given workers in terms of rights (including non-union sectors), my original ignorant view on them has changed considerably.
Re: Cost of living crisis
It's tfl Vs government, mayor is on tfl sideSammyLeeWasOffside wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:59 am Hopefully someone (probably mumbles) can help here.
Isn't this really a number of disputes in one action? Tfl v London mayor, network rail about safety v modernisation and RMT v rail companies?
If so can one negotiation solve all the disputes?
It's gov Vs labour mayor
It can be sorted network rail side with one thing
However tfl was only called out because it suited the rmt to have an all out .. it was their wet dream
Re: Cost of living crisis
https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/review?u ... faa3ad6278
Been sent a copy of the offer to network rail members
"Close all ticket offices, make all staff Multi - Skilled, Make Sundays all part of working and don’t think change the pension scheme(you get full pension at 65), new staff have to wait 2 years.
All for extra 1% pay rise"
So for 1% they want them to give up the Sunday overtime deal they have had for year
Don't get me wrong ...it makes sense to get that gone but all those conditions for 1%
Do you think any union would accept that?
Been sent a copy of the offer to network rail members
"Close all ticket offices, make all staff Multi - Skilled, Make Sundays all part of working and don’t think change the pension scheme(you get full pension at 65), new staff have to wait 2 years.
All for extra 1% pay rise"
So for 1% they want them to give up the Sunday overtime deal they have had for year
Don't get me wrong ...it makes sense to get that gone but all those conditions for 1%
Do you think any union would accept that?
- Tenbury
- Posts: 9325
- Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:28 pm
- Location: Too near Kidderminster
- Has liked: 728 likes
- Total likes: 1226 likes
Re: Cost of living crisis
Of course it was about power in the communities, Thatcher didn't have it, so she smashed the communities. Did you ever meet any NUM activists in the 70's?..I did (living in Barnsley, there wasn't much choice). There were arseh*les, decent blokes, and everything in between.... Just like everywhere else.....SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:42 pm .
NUM activists through the 50s to the 80s were about as nastiest group of thugs you could hope to meet. I know of lots of their members that had night time visits. It was a different animal entirely to unions today it became about power and control in communities as much as workers rights.
Now, the S. Yorks Police at the time.......
- sendô
- Posts: 44503
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:41 pm
- Location: rubbing my eyes in disbelief - we've won a European trophy!
- Has liked: 2488 likes
- Total likes: 2713 likes
Re: Cost of living crisis
The old system of queueing for season tickets at a ticket office makes little sense these days. It should be far easier to update contactless tickets online including season tickets.
Season tickets should also include for x days worth of travel rather than 1 week or 1 month for example.
Anyway, 1% is an insult. Especially as pensioners have just got 11% as a grey vote bribe.
Season tickets should also include for x days worth of travel rather than 1 week or 1 month for example.
Anyway, 1% is an insult. Especially as pensioners have just got 11% as a grey vote bribe.
Re: Cost of living crisis
That's entirely the problem isn't itsendô wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:42 pm The old system of queueing for season tickets at a ticket office makes little sense these days. It should be far easier to update contactless tickets online including season tickets.
Season tickets should also include for x days worth of travel rather than 1 week or 1 month for example.
Anyway, 1% is an insult. Especially as pensioners have just got 11% as a grey vote bribe.
These changes on paper don't seem too unreasonable, but why should they have to work Sundays (when ATM they don't and it's a choice to work overtime) for 1%
If they offer a flat 3% rise and then work on these changes that would make sense
Putting payrises with conditions like this is just asking for trouble
- Tenbury
- Posts: 9325
- Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:28 pm
- Location: Too near Kidderminster
- Has liked: 728 likes
- Total likes: 1226 likes
Online
NUM essentially ran the village I grew up in. Loads of people got a good hiding for 'disrespecting' someone well up in the union. People had rats put through their letterboxes and we even had a couple of houses set of fire when they heard someone was waivering on breaking the strike.
During the strike the union ran things through fear, kept people off work to the point of losing their homes. All the while the flying activist types were being paid a fortune and provided with food. The leadership never went without and all did pretty well out of the subscriptions
Most miners were ok, as you say the usual mix, the properly involved NUM bods weren't a pleasant bunch. Pulled the wool over a lot of hard working people's eyes and scared the crap out of others.
- SammyLeeWasOffside
- Posts: 21823
- Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:31 am
- Has liked: 310 likes
- Total likes: 1085 likes
Re: Cost of living crisis
Im from Barnsley so grew up surrounded by them. My dad wasnt down the pit but worked for the NCB. During one local strike he had his car smashed up, his workmate was put in hospital and dad would have been next if his boss hadn't turned up with a union bloke to explain that these 'scabs' were ensuring the north of England payroll was getting done.Tenbury wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:40 pm Of course it was about power in the communities, Thatcher didn't have it, so she smashed the communities. Did you ever meet any NUM activists in the 70's?..I did (living in Barnsley, there wasn't much choice). There were arseh*les, decent blokes, and everything in between.... Just like everywhere else.....
Now, the S. Yorks Police at the time.......
NUM essentially ran the village I grew up in. Loads of people got a good hiding for 'disrespecting' someone well up in the union. People had rats put through their letterboxes and we even had a couple of houses set of fire when they heard someone was waivering on breaking the strike.
During the strike the union ran things through fear, kept people off work to the point of losing their homes. All the while the flying activist types were being paid a fortune and provided with food. The leadership never went without and all did pretty well out of the subscriptions
Most miners were ok, as you say the usual mix, the properly involved NUM bods weren't a pleasant bunch. Pulled the wool over a lot of hard working people's eyes and scared the crap out of others.
- Tenbury
- Posts: 9325
- Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:28 pm
- Location: Too near Kidderminster
- Has liked: 728 likes
- Total likes: 1226 likes
Re: Cost of living crisis
I think we can agree, at least, that feelings ran pretty high. I think that most reasonable people would, at least in hindsight find pretty unacceptable behaviour on allsides. Time to bury the hatchet.
[ was the legendary Albion Turner before your time?]
[ was the legendary Albion Turner before your time?]
Online
Hatchets don't get buried up here as you will no doubt know. I know people who haven't seen family members since the strike, who will still walk out of pubs if certain people come in. I met one bloke who has never met his grandkids despite living in the same village because his son went back to work 2 days before the strike ended. That was 30 odd years later, imagine the feelings at the time.
- SammyLeeWasOffside
- Posts: 21823
- Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:31 am
- Has liked: 310 likes
- Total likes: 1085 likes
Re: Cost of living crisis
Must be before my time, the publican?
Hatchets don't get buried up here as you will no doubt know. I know people who haven't seen family members since the strike, who will still walk out of pubs if certain people come in. I met one bloke who has never met his grandkids despite living in the same village because his son went back to work 2 days before the strike ended. That was 30 odd years later, imagine the feelings at the time.
- Danny's Dyer Acting
- Posts: 9034
- Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:37 pm
- Has liked: 645 likes
- Total likes: 1850 likes
Re: Cost of living crisis
BT has around 104,000 employees around the world. They could have given the lowest paid 70% of their staff a £5k bonus and still paid out £350m to shareholders.
I'd love to hear again how it's working people begging for a little extra that are the big problem we have right now.