Cost of living crisis

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DaveWHU1964
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by DaveWHU1964 »

btajim - mcfc wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:26 pm Rude, indifferent service.
You're not getting the kind of response you'd have hoped for on here either are you? Your posting on this thread and others comes across as self-centred, buy-the-line whinging. Have you considered that maybe it's the way you word things that leads to the reactions that you get?
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DaveWHU1964
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by DaveWHU1964 »

Did this get mentioned on here already?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 06600.html

After the logic of abandoning the triple lock last year it would have been even more justified this year so this is obviously a bribe to keep sweet one of the few blocks of voters this government have left that it can rely on.

I'm not against pensioners having this sort of increase but to do this for them whilst at the same time telling the rest of us to show restraint doesn't make those who push this line sound coherent, logical or likely to be listened to.
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by Shabu »

DaveWHU1964 wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:08 pm You're not getting the kind of response you'd have hoped for on here either are you? Your posting on this thread and others comes across as self-centred, buy-the-line whinging. Have you considered that maybe it's the way you word things that leads to the reactions that you get?
He comes across as a proper ****er. I'm still not sure if he insulted my missus or black people in one previous post. It was definitely one or the other but when I asked him he blanked it.
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Turns to Stone
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by Turns to Stone »

I must admit, I've spent my life travelling by train. Looking back, I can tell you that the times that I've been arsey with the workers have been because of one of two things:-

1. Their trains are too expensive (not their fault)
2. My own mistakes in buying the wrong ticket/missing a train etc (not their fault)

I'm a pretty laid back chap, but I can think of a few times when I've laid into workers because of both those things, and I imagine they're getting that all day long from people.

It's a thankless task, but I've had far more positive experiences with staff than negative ones. I'm absolutely on their side.
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mumbles87
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by mumbles87 »

Turns to Stone wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:58 am I must admit, I've spent my life travelling by train. Looking back, I can tell you that the times that I've been arsey with the workers have been because of one of two things:-

1. Their trains are too expensive (not their fault)
2. My own mistakes in buying the wrong ticket/missing a train etc (not their fault)

I'm a pretty laid back chap, but I can think of a few times when I've laid into workers because of both those things, and I imagine they're getting that all day long from people.

It's a thankless task, but I've had far more positive experiences with staff than negative ones. I'm absolutely on their side.
im actually very surprised how many of the public are on there side

maybe its because network rail dont strike often..

however you still get the odd hard line tory voter or the anti union brigade who are deluded enough to think without unions the big companies would give workers a fair chance just because its the nice thing to do

but they are just away with the fairies god bless em
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Turns to Stone
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by Turns to Stone »

mumbles87 wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:16 am im actually very surprised how many of the public are on there side

maybe its because network rail dont strike often..

however you still get the odd hard line tory voter or the anti union brigade who are deluded enough to think without unions the big companies would give workers a fair chance just because its the nice thing to do

but they are just away with the fairies god bless em
I think we have a tendency to take some things for granted in this country - and because many of us might stop using something at a certain point in our life, we stop thinking about it and believe that we could all do with out it.

The NHS, the BBC, Trains - I think a lot of things that many people can often go months or even years without using, and as such people wonder why you should bother. The truth is that so many of us rely in this things at various points in our lives that we should all be on board with them. They ar also the ones that usually are the first to be attacked. Which tells me that they are the ones that we should fight hardest to keep.
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SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Hopefully someone (probably mumbles) can help here.

Isn't this really a number of disputes in one action? Tfl v London mayor, network rail about safety v modernisation and RMT v rail companies?

If so can one negotiation solve all the disputes?
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SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Turns to Stone wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:31 am The NHS, the BBC, Trains - I think a lot of things that many people can often go months or even years without using, and as such people wonder why you should bother. The truth is that so many of us rely in this things at various points in our lives that we should all be on board with them.
Isn't that true of all sorts of things that we sit and watch disappear.

When you say on board, we pay to use the services provided. That's really the only way to be on board with them. Clapping the rail workers won't make up the 4% difference in pay offer. So when prices go up to pay them more will those in support now still be or will they grumble as much as they did when asked to get on board with the nhs and social care last April.
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by Junco Partner »

Prices don’t necessarily go up to pay for it though, not when there’s hundreds of millions of pounds of profit being made even on the reduced passenger flow after COVID.

Compare an organisation whose key, sometimes sole, and only legal purpose is to maximise returns for shareholders versus a publicly mandated organisation whose key purpose is to transport our citizens around as safely, cleanly and affordably as possible and the case for the latter is made.

Unfortunately, after decades of ideological restructuring we’ve got a bizarre mish-mash of various forms of the former that a mad man wouldn’t dream into existence.
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by chelmsfordhammer91 »

Junco Partner wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:54 am an organisation whose key, sometimes sole, and only legal purpose is to maximise returns for shareholders
Not having a dig as I get what your point is, but this part isn't strictly correct.

Although the Companies Act 2006 says:

A director of a company must act in the way he considers, in good faith, would be most likely to promote the success of the company for the benefit of its members as a whole

It also adds:

and in doing so have regard (amongst other matters) to–

(a)the likely consequences of any decision in the long term,

(b)the interests of the company’s employees,

(c)the need to foster the company’s business relationships with suppliers, customers and others,

(d)the impact of the company’s operations on the community and the environment,

(e)the desirability of the company maintaining a reputation for high standards of business conduct, and

(f)the need to act fairly as between members of the company.

(2)Where or to the extent that the purposes of the company consist of or include purposes other than the benefit of its members, subsection (1) has effect as if the reference to promoting the success of the company for the benefit of its members were to achieving those purposes.

(3)The duty imposed by this section has effect subject to any enactment or rule of law requiring directors, in certain circumstances, to consider or act in the interests of creditors of the company.

It is quite subjective on a few of those points, but gives enough scope for non-government organisations to have an obligation to not be total c*nts.

I have no personal experience with unions, but support the workers on this one. After reading up more about the history of unions in the UK and what it has given workers in terms of rights (including non-union sectors), my original ignorant view on them has changed considerably.
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mumbles87
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by mumbles87 »

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:59 am Hopefully someone (probably mumbles) can help here.

Isn't this really a number of disputes in one action? Tfl v London mayor, network rail about safety v modernisation and RMT v rail companies?

If so can one negotiation solve all the disputes?
It's tfl Vs government, mayor is on tfl side

It's gov Vs labour mayor

It can be sorted network rail side with one thing

However tfl was only called out because it suited the rmt to have an all out .. it was their wet dream
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mumbles87
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by mumbles87 »

https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/review?u ... faa3ad6278

Been sent a copy of the offer to network rail members

"Close all ticket offices, make all staff Multi - Skilled, Make Sundays all part of working and don’t think change the pension scheme(you get full pension at 65), new staff have to wait 2 years.

All for extra 1% pay rise"

So for 1% they want them to give up the Sunday overtime deal they have had for year

Don't get me wrong ...it makes sense to get that gone but all those conditions for 1%

Do you think any union would accept that?
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Tenbury
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by Tenbury »

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:42 pm .

NUM activists through the 50s to the 80s were about as nastiest group of thugs you could hope to meet. I know of lots of their members that had night time visits. It was a different animal entirely to unions today it became about power and control in communities as much as workers rights.

Of course it was about power in the communities, Thatcher didn't have it, so she smashed the communities. Did you ever meet any NUM activists in the 70's?..I did (living in Barnsley, there wasn't much choice). There were arseh*les, decent blokes, and everything in between.... Just like everywhere else.....
Now, the S. Yorks Police at the time.......
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by sendô »

The old system of queueing for season tickets at a ticket office makes little sense these days. It should be far easier to update contactless tickets online including season tickets.

Season tickets should also include for x days worth of travel rather than 1 week or 1 month for example.

Anyway, 1% is an insult. Especially as pensioners have just got 11% as a grey vote bribe.
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mumbles87
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by mumbles87 »

sendô wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:42 pm The old system of queueing for season tickets at a ticket office makes little sense these days. It should be far easier to update contactless tickets online including season tickets.

Season tickets should also include for x days worth of travel rather than 1 week or 1 month for example.

Anyway, 1% is an insult. Especially as pensioners have just got 11% as a grey vote bribe.
That's entirely the problem isn't it

These changes on paper don't seem too unreasonable, but why should they have to work Sundays (when ATM they don't and it's a choice to work overtime) for 1%

If they offer a flat 3% rise and then work on these changes that would make sense

Putting payrises with conditions like this is just asking for trouble
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Tenbury
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by Tenbury »

sendô wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:42 pm

. Especially as pensioners have just got 11% as a grey vote bribe.
Eh? they havent given me 11%.....the robbing Tory b*stards....
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Tenbury wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:40 pm Of course it was about power in the communities, Thatcher didn't have it, so she smashed the communities. Did you ever meet any NUM activists in the 70's?..I did (living in Barnsley, there wasn't much choice). There were arseh*les, decent blokes, and everything in between.... Just like everywhere else.....
Now, the S. Yorks Police at the time.......
Im from Barnsley so grew up surrounded by them. My dad wasnt down the pit but worked for the NCB. During one local strike he had his car smashed up, his workmate was put in hospital and dad would have been next if his boss hadn't turned up with a union bloke to explain that these 'scabs' were ensuring the north of England payroll was getting done.

NUM essentially ran the village I grew up in. Loads of people got a good hiding for 'disrespecting' someone well up in the union. People had rats put through their letterboxes and we even had a couple of houses set of fire when they heard someone was waivering on breaking the strike.

During the strike the union ran things through fear, kept people off work to the point of losing their homes. All the while the flying activist types were being paid a fortune and provided with food. The leadership never went without and all did pretty well out of the subscriptions

Most miners were ok, as you say the usual mix, the properly involved NUM bods weren't a pleasant bunch. Pulled the wool over a lot of hard working people's eyes and scared the crap out of others.
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by Tenbury »

I think we can agree, at least, that feelings ran pretty high. I think that most reasonable people would, at least in hindsight find pretty unacceptable behaviour on allsides. Time to bury the hatchet.
[ was the legendary Albion Turner before your time?]
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Tenbury wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:07 am I think we can agree, at least, that feelings ran pretty high. I think that most reasonable people would, at least in hindsight find pretty unacceptable behaviour on allsides. Time to bury the hatchet.
[ was the legendary Albion Turner before your time?]
Must be before my time, the publican?

Hatchets don't get buried up here as you will no doubt know. I know people who haven't seen family members since the strike, who will still walk out of pubs if certain people come in. I met one bloke who has never met his grandkids despite living in the same village because his son went back to work 2 days before the strike ended. That was 30 odd years later, imagine the feelings at the time.
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Re: Cost of living crisis

Post by Danny's Dyer Acting »



BT has around 104,000 employees around the world. They could have given the lowest paid 70% of their staff a £5k bonus and still paid out £350m to shareholders.

I'd love to hear again how it's working people begging for a little extra that are the big problem we have right now.
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