✍ Flynn Downes

[Aztec Hammer]

Its for others in the Team to perform that role, whilst he can mainly concentrate on other technical aspects of the game.

I think this may become more of a question mark than you might currently perceive it as.

If we really are determined to change our style to one where we have more of the ball and control possession (as it seems we are making a pointed effort to do), we will likely require more than one press-resistant central midfielder.

If Downes puts in more performances akin to the FCSB one, he has a good chance of jumping the queue, as his skillset seems to have a good chance of being compatible with this style.

[MB]

There is nothing wrong with having a “water carrier”. It frees up the players in front of them to do what they do best.

The problem with playing Downes and Rice is that Rice doesn’t influence the final third enough. It then puts huge pressure on the three behind the striker to do so and we know they are inconsistent and in some cases bedding in.

Compare that to the players Deschamps had in front of him…

That’s why I’ve always advocated Rice for that role as it lets you bring in someone more attacking alongside Soucek etc. Using Downes to free up Rice just doesn’t add enough IMHO. We get Declan Rico-Coker rather than Declan Gerrice or Declan Lamprice

[Aztec Hammer]

At the same time, it’s possible that Rice and Downes could form a fulcrum that helps us have a lot more of the ball, and get attacked less as a result, and we might not need to score as many goals to win games.

[MB]

At the same time, it’s possible that Rice and Downes could form a fulcrum that helps us have a lot more of the ball, and get attacked less as a result, and we might not need to score as many goals to win games.

Could is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence.

We haven't seen Downes against an aggressive pressing side and if we play those two as a pair then Paqueta will have to be the real deal.

I'm not a die on a hill type when it comes to Soucek, I just don't think the alternatives are there yet. Let's see how the next couple of months pan out.

[norse]

"Win the ball, give it to Pirlo"

Gennaro Gattuso

[Aztec Hammer]

Could is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence.

We haven't seen Downes against an aggressive pressing side and if we play those two as a pair then Paqueta will have to be the real deal.

I'm not a die on a hill type when it comes to Soucek, I just don't think the alternatives are there yet. Let's see how the next couple of months pan out.

Yeah, the best case is that both of them play a lot with Rice as that probably means they’re both good enough and we are advancing well in the competitions.

[Scratchy]

Captain of his Country, Premier League stalwart for a top 6-7 side and a player coveted by other PL clubs

Yet he's technically ****

He is though. He's started this season well and I hope he can keep it up, but he's very limited technically. It's been evident even when he was in excellent form in previous seasons. In physicality and the mental side of the game he is top notch, which more or less makes up for his technical deficiencies.

[MB]

He is though. He's started this season well and I hope he can keep it up, but he's very limited technically. It's been evident even when he was in excellent form in previous seasons. In physicality and the mental side of the game he is top notch, which more or less makes up for his technical deficiencies.

But to CNR's point above, what you define as physical others could define as technical.

Winning a header isn't just physical.

Arriving in the box at the right time isn't physical.

We also see polarisation of aspects of players games based on stats. Downes and Lanzini = good passers because their completion % is high, but Soucek, Bowen etc aren't because they hover around the late 70s.

I've seen Lanzini complete four 1 2s in a row around the edge of the 18 yard box with the ball ending up going five yards backwards. 100% completion, 0% threat.

Downes and Rice played pat-a-cake with the ball plenty of times in the last match. Some of that is fine, but too much kills the flow.

We all know Soucek's limitations like we know Lanzini's and Rice's. We'll learn Downes' in a few more games.

The question is how those limitations can be compensated elsewhere to reduce their impact or how the other strengths those players bring compensate for deficiencies elsewhere.

We need to get away from binary comparisons of players and think more about the overall balance of the team.

[MB]

Moyes on Downes:


Has Flynn Downes not featured much this season because he is still adapting?

If you ask me where he had been to what I am seeing now, and I look at some other players, I’ve looked at maybe like Kalvin Phillips who went to Man City and maybe not really adapted or been injured, and I don’t know. I think it will always happen. I’m talking about someone from the Championship, Flynn Downes. He needs time, and it’s different when you might say, ‘what about Jarrod Bowen?’ I am saying this because Jarrod Bowen joined us when we were probably a team trying to avoid the bottom three, and Flynn Downes is now joining a team trying to be in the top half of the league, so we’ve changed from that point of view. He will need to wait for his opportunities. What I would say is that he has trained much better in the last two to three weeks, and we are certainly seeing a bit more from Flynn from when he first came in. Maybe he’s recognising, ‘he, I’ve got to step up as well, and I am going to have to move up’ to join these boys.

Sounds like he is going in the right direction and hopefully gets some more minutes tomorrow

[Southminster Hammer]

Moyes on Downes:


Has Flynn Downes not featured much this season because he is still adapting?



Sounds like he is going in the right direction and hopefully gets some more minutes tomorrow

Certainly sounds promising, obviously he has talent, but he maybe was lacking that bit extra or different that Moyes wants. Moyes has always promoted the idea of bringing players from the lower divisions, and he wants to give them time to adjust to his way of playing etc.

[stu1]

If Moyes doesn’t start him against Anderlecht then it’s poor management for me. Downes was head and shoulders our best player against Bucharest and he deserves to play as a result.

We also have a massive game against Fulham at the weekend, so we should be using our squad wisely.

[MB]

While I may not agree with Moyes' tactics at times, I do trust his man management Stu.

I agree Downes was decent in that game, but Moyee knows what he is doing.

[Vienna]

He'll be sold sooner or later, I love Moyes, but if he don't play you, you will be out the door. He is stubborn and it's just his way.

[Bubbles Fortuna]

He'll be sold sooner or later, I love Moyes, but if he don't play you, you will be out the door. He is stubborn and it's just his way.

I'm pretty sure he'll start tomorrow.

[stu1]

While I may not agree with Moyes' tactics at times, I do trust his man management Stu.

I agree Downes was decent in that game, but Moyee knows what he is doing.

Don’t get me wrong Moyes has done a great job but I’m not sure his man management is always great. I’d question how he’s treated both Benhrama and Vlasic.

His criticism of Downes when he’d only played 2 minutes of first team football was rather strange, as was his complete omission during the Everton game.

Hopefully he picks Downes tomorrow, as we don’t want him under cooked and lacking in confidence later in the season.

[MB]

And yet Benrahma delivered significantly more in his second season and has looked good this year as welland shown no signs of being unhappy. I'd say he is a significantly better all round player than when he signed.

Vlasic, Moyes himself has said was a mistake. He gave him chances , he didn't fit and he has been put out on loan. The sport is ruthless like that.

Different people need to be managed in different ways.

[blahblahblah]

I have been as frustrated as anyone by Soucek's performances (except v Wolves) but those comments from Moyes paint a realistic picture. Yeah, he looked tidy against a Danish side, but there is a monumental gap between them and the Premier League or European sides we would see in the knockout stages.

And it's not like the manager only speaks to players through pre-match interviews. Downes will surely know 1) where he is on the team sheet and 2) what management feels he needs to work on.

[Aztec Hammer]

I don't believe Downes would have played worse than Tomas so far this season, so I lean more towards his lack of game time being Moyes' natural tendency to play it safe. Particularly whilst we were struggling and there were some murmurs about his job security.

Romanian team or not, the only time Downes played this season, he was arguably man of the match.

He has deserved more opportunities so far, especially when you consider the form of the player in front of him. He must play today. It can't be just Blackburn, Silkeborg and FCSB.

[funky chicken]

I don’t expect him to start tonight. But should we win tonight and the closer we get to qualifying for the knockout stage, then I reckon Moyes may start him more then.

I expect Moyes will go with more experienced players first to get the job done. Hence why I predicted Lanzini would start in the match thread. Having said that, I didn’t think Downes would start the last game and he did. So who knows with Moyes. He is full of surprises.

Should we qualify and he doesn’t play in the last game or 2 of the group stage and especially the Blackburn game, then more questions can be asked.

[S-H]

I don't believe Downes would have played worse than Tomas so far this season,

But Soucek has been one of our better, more consistent players?

Certainly more consistent than Rice.