A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by Colours never run »

bitter-iron-ny wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:04 am No sign of Kehrer :chin:
No, why who would you prefer to see drop out of that side :chin:
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by bitter-iron-ny »

Colours never run wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:15 am No, why who would you prefer to see drop out of that side :chin:
Dawson. Legitimate club legend but expect his time as first choice has passed.
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by Bubbles Fortuna »

Colours never run wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:01 am In the long run I'd pick Bowen as well, but he's currently bang out of form and would select Antonio right now. Emerson I've found can give the ball and free kicks away cheaply and doesn't offer enough going forward for me to select him over Cornet. Someone who has impressed me everytime he's played and not put a foot wrong. Plus Cornet has played left wing and knows what's required. I can also imagine him tracking back doing his fair share of work too.
I agree, I just think Moyes will favour Emerson. Cornet also said in an interview that he's been told he'll be playing as a forward.

Honestly I like Cornet as part of that front two!
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by sutts07 »

Let's get after them...!!!
Attack...!!!
Areola
Kehrer Zouma Agurd
Rice Paqueta
Bowen Benrhama Cornet
Antonio Scamacca

Get a 6 goal lead and then we can put Coufal, Emerson, Soucek, Fornals and Lanzini on for Bowen, Cornet, Paqueta, Benrahma and Antonio.
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by YorksHammer »

Figured I'd bump this back up given that there's a lot of discussion around the need for a change at the moment.

Is this our best current formation - in theory and excluding issues with form/fitness currently?

---------------- Areola -------------------
Kehrer - Zouma - Ogbonna - Emerson
----------------- Rice ---------------------
--------- Paqueta - Soucek -------------
Bowen ----- Scamacca -------- Cornet

Aguerd would likely replace Ogbonna once fit, but given we've not seen him play for us yet I wasn't certain whether to include him or not

You'd then have a second string of:

------------------ Fabianski -------------------
Coufal ---- Dawson - Aguerd ---- Cresswell
------------------- Downes ---------------------
----------- Lanzini ---- Coventry -------------
Benrahma ------- Antonio ---------- Fornals

Probably a couple of points you'd say stuck out as needing an alternative - right wing to put Benrahma on the left, which would then let you put Fornals as one of the central two instead of Lanzini or Coventry - but generally speaking that's how I'd see it.
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by Pete647580 »

I'd play Downes instead of Soucek and Benrahma instead of Bowen.

Benrahma and Scamacca have shown very early signs of being on the same wavelength.

Tbh, I wish the manager (obvs won't be Moyes saying anything like this) would just tell them 'go out there and show us your skills'. Benrahma, Scamacca and Cornet have been running rings round other players since they were 5 years old. In the streets, academies, youth teams, previous clubs. They don't need someone telling them what to do.

Rice, Downes and Paqueta I'd tell to win the ball them look to move it forward asap.

The defence I would spend a lot of time drilling.
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by Pete647580 »

.
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by MB »

Definitely needs to be a 433 for me. The "who" I think can be debated, but to me the front three of Benrahma, Scamacca and Cornet has looked the nearest we have to an understanding.

Downes sitting with Rice and one of Fornals and Paqueta or Rice sitting with Soucek and one of those two I think can also be debated.

If Johnson is fit, he plays right back for me. If not I'm grudgingly coming round to moving Kehrer as Coufal is a liability but I'd prefer he was at centre half so we can move the line forward.

It forces us to be a bit more progressive and positive which is the main thing for me
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by jabbaglob123 »

MB wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:33 pm Definitely needs to be a 433 for me. The "who" I think can be debated, but to me the front three of Benrahma, Scamacca and Cornet has looked the nearest we have to an understanding.

Downes sitting with Rice and one of Fornals and Paqueta or Rice sitting with Soucek and one of those two I think can also be debated.

If Johnson is fit, he plays right back for me. If not I'm grudgingly coming round to moving Kehrer as Coufal is a liability but I'd prefer he was at centre half so we can move the line forward.

It forces us to be a bit more progressive and positive which is the main thing for me
For me when everyone is fit, it could be this?

Areola
Kehrer Zouma Aguerd Emerson
PaqMan Rice Downes
Cornet Scamacca Benny
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by S-H »

Vs Wolves I imagine we'll set up with..
Fabianski

Coufal Dawson Zouma Cresswell

Soucek Rice Fornals

Bowen Antonio Benrahma


Id personally go with..


Areola

Kehrer Zouma Ogbonna Emerson

Paqueta Rice Fornals

Cornet Scamacca Benrahma



Probably harsh on Cresswell and Soucek, but we need players who are going to play, Cresswell makes it too easy just swing a ball into the box, Emerson much more likely to give and go, or make runs into the box and cut back.

Soucek although being one of our 'better' players struggles with the passing game, so I'd like to Rice sit deeper and allow the two hard working, creative types in Paqueta and Fornals (hanging on by the skin of his teeth) to compliment the attack.

Benrahma and Cornet have been our best attackers so that's a no brainer, and Scamacca deserves to play too, otherwise what's the point.

Shame it won't happen, but that's what I'd like to see, going forward.
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by Burnley Hammer »

^^^ Agree 4-3-3 is the way to go. I'd go with that 2nd line-up at the moment too. If we want to close a game out, bring on Soucek or Downes and pack the midfield - which I always think is a better option than bringing on extra defenders. That just invites pressure. Much better stifling the game higher up the pitch.
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by hammer1975 »

Personally, don’t think the formation is the issue nor the silver bullet some seem to think it is. What was evident yesterday was (i) lack of movement by those without the ball, (ii) lack of intensity both with and without the ball, and (iii) poor execution of passing.

Don’t think 4-3-3, 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, 3-4-3 etc changes those fundamentals.

Moyes needs to address those basics. The whole squad should be made to watch the whole game against Brighton and all of yesterdays match - whenever a player passes the ball to someone else and doesn’t immediately move into space (or take an opposition runner away) then the rest of the squad should be allowed to throw eggs at them. Repeat this for 180 minutes with those two games. Then have a training match. If they don’t massively improve movement off the ball then repeat the egg-exercise and then play again. Keep repeating until they get the hint. Simples.

…and to think I haven’t even done any coaching badges.
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by D C »

Agreed the formation won’t change much if we can’t get the basics right and learn to attack properly against a defensive team.

But it would allow us to remove some of our worst ball players out of the team like Soucek and force Paqueta to play deeper and be more involved in the game

433 could still look like a back 5 as well especially if Kehrer is the RB and Emerson’s at LB
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by MB »

Agreed Hammer1975, intent, where the line of defence is, line of engagement etc etc. All more important than formation.

But some formations do force you more on the front foot than others even with those variables.

All being equal I'd rather watch us in a 433 than a 4231 for that reason alone.
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by D C »

Is Cornet any good on the right? It’s a shame Benrahma and him seem better on the left given Bowen’s dire form
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by YorksHammer »

D C wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:24 pm Is Cornet any good on the right? It’s a shame Benrahma and him seem better on the left given Bowen’s dire form
Cornet can play on both sides. In many ways he's similar to Bowen, I.e left footed, willing runner, gets behind the defence.
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by mumbles87 »

I'd like to see (next game)

-----------------------areola

Kehrer --dawson---zouma --emerson

-----------fornals--rice---paquata

Antonio ---------scamacca ------cornet
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by westham,eggyandchips »

Fab

Coufal Zouma Ogbonna Cress

Downes Rice

Paqueta

Antonio Scamacca Cornet
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by El brooko79 »

Agree with the suggestions here.

Something I think needs to happen also is Rice stays more central and use the ball from there. Think he drifts too far to the left and really don't like it when he drops in at left back. Rooney started doing in for England towards the end and it feels like the easy option. If he is gonna reach the very top he needs to be able to take it under more pressure. Particularly if we are to try the following.

-----------------Rice
Paqueta------------Fornals/Downes
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Re: A new regular Formation?/The formation and tactics thread

Post by Wilko1304 »

We've just discussed this on the pod, but I don't do much opinion on there so I'll vomit it here :grin:

For me, it's a 4-3-3. I think it best suits the players we signed, and works with the players we have, whilst looking like a solution to our build-up issues.

I am not wedded to particular personnel, but I think I would be going for (all injuries ignored):

---------------Fabianski (currently the better option, but mostly based on him being the man with the shirt)
Johnson - Zouma - Aguerd - Cresswell
-------Paqueta - Rice - Fornals
Bowen---------Antonio----------Cornet

However, I think you could use Kehrer or Coufal. And I also think it might relieve some of the pressure on Soucek to play in deep positions, so you'd have him on one of those wider two roles to push forward, you could put Downes central if you want Rice to be a ball carrier, I think Lanzini works in there, too.

Equally, you could move Fornals forward in games you want to, Benrahma is also much more suited to a 4-3-3 and probably deserves that role over Cornet, I just fancy Cornet to score goals.

It's a system Scamacca has played in, and with Bowen/Antonio/Cornet/Benrahma/Fornals as options either side of him, and the central players using the ball better into feet, it would help him thrive.

I think he'll want to go 3-4-3/3-4-1-2 again, if he's worried. If we do that, I think we have to buy two new wingbacks in January, because we have none, in my opinion. If he does 3atb, he has to play Kehrer in one of the wider CB roles, and Cresswell doesn't play. Ideally, it would be Kehrer-Zouma- Aguerd from (our) right to left.

I don't think Coufal is done, but he needs some refining in training and a system that doesn't force him into bad areas. Both he and Soucek, right now, I feel are being managed badly. They are being forced into systems that make them have to do things they aren't good at far too often.
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