PlaistowIron wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:27 pm
Doesn’t strike me as a character you want in your side for a dog fight/relegation battle.
Must admit, as much as I still think Scamacca will come good, I’d certainly liked to have seen us sign a Danny Ings type player in the summer too… an experienced goalscorer as a back up.
With Antonio looking past his best, we’ve basically thrown all our eggs in one basket by having to rely on Scamacca.
Maybe the young lad who (sort of) scored against FCSB may get a few minutes now and again.
It’s either Moyes fault or Newmans fault that we have a player who does not suit Moyes style of play.
Either Moyes knew the type of forward we was getting or Newman identified the wrong type of player.
Oldun wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:40 am
It’s either Moyes fault or Newmans fault that we have a player who does not suit Moyes style of play.
Either Moyes knew the type of forward we was getting or Newman identified the wrong type of player.
Let’s be clear, Moyes wanted Broja and he was the No.1 target.
We’re not accommodating him whatsoever, and imo, it’s becoming more and more obvious that the manager didn’t want him. Which opens up a whole new debate about why we did it.
Bubbles Fortuna wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:54 pm
Obviously illness has stopped him, but Haller hasn't proven anything in a serious league yet.
Is the CL not a serious league then? (And while he had cancer developing in his body).
Lots of players score for fun in Holland. I don't think we should be using him as a stick to beat the club with.
Anderson as well was awful for us after his first three months. He dragged us single handedly to a win against Southampton and then swapped places with his terrible at football twin brother.
hammers92 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:42 am
Let’s be clear, Moyes wanted Broja and he was the No.1 target.
We’re not accommodating him whatsoever, and imo, it’s becoming more and more obvious that the manager didn’t want him. Which opens up a whole new debate about why we did it.
With respect H92, why is it 'obvious' that Moyes didnt want him? What am I missing that makes this 100% true. I get that it is your view, but obvious?
Oldun wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:40 am
It’s either Moyes fault or Newmans fault that we have a player who does not suit Moyes style of play.
Either Moyes knew the type of forward we was getting or Newman identified the wrong type of player.
hammers92 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:42 am
Let’s be clear, Moyes wanted Broja and he was the No.1 target.
We’re not accommodating him whatsoever, and imo, it’s becoming more and more obvious that the manager didn’t want him. Which opens up a whole new debate about why we did it.
I'm not convinced of that.
Players always seem to be the managers choice until they start playing badly, and then all of a sudden they were forced on him. I don't doubt that Moyes wanted Broja - but he will have had more names on his list. He's have had a plan B and a plan C. If he only had a plan A then that would have been foolish.
I think people in general were very happy when Scamacca signed. A lot rated him.
The same applies to Haller.
The same applies to Vlasic.
We give them 10 games to settle in (if they're lucky) and then we turn on them.
Almost always, what inevitably follows are claims that they weren't the managers choice and they were Sulli buys. This happens to almost every signing that we perceive to have failed.
If they're playing well then that generally means they were the managers pick.
Diogenes wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:23 am
With respect H92, why is it 'obvious' that Moyes didnt want him? What am I missing that makes this 100% true. I get that it is your view, but obvious?
I think we’re asking him to slot into how we play instead of building the side around him. We set up in the same way and formation as last year and don’t play to his strengths.
I also think Broja and Scamacca are two completely different players. Scamacca doesn’t have the pace to lead the line for the counter so we need to adjust our approach.
The more we keep losing the more I think back to the summer and missing out on the manager’s No.1 targets. It just doesn’t add up for me.
Burnley Hammer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:27 am
I'm just not buying it.
Some fair points in that post. I just think Scamacca plays a certain way and we need to build our side around him. He’s the big money striker and if we’re not playing to his own strengths, then that’s either tactical or a very bad signing.
I think Moyes was looking for a younger Antonio and Broja was that. I think either we play to Scamacca’s style or he doesn’t play at all.
hammers92 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:29 am
I think we’re asking him to slot into how we play instead of building the side around him. We set up in the same way and formation as last year and don’t play to his strengths.
I also think Broja and Scamacca are two completely different players. Scamacca doesn’t have the pace to lead the line for the counter so we need to adjust our approach.
The more we keep losing the more I think back to the summer and missing out on the manager’s No.1 targets. It just doesn’t add up for me.
Countering doesn't just mean whacking a long ball forward for the striker to chase. If it's done properly then there's a whole passage of play before that. Other players should be getting up there in support quickly and overlapping. Our counter attacking is failing simply because we're not very good at it at the moment. We're not very good at anything at the moment. Passages of play are generally worked on a lot in training. I just fear that ours are very rigid and have become incredibly predictable.
Bubbles Fortuna wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:35 am
All of his goals came in those 6 group stage matches, 4 coming in one game against Sporting, the Portuguese league isn't a major league no.
2 against Dortmund, and the rest against Besiktas.
So no, not a major league.
It's just an easy dig at the manager when he also flopped under Pellegrini and obviously wanted to leave. He just didn't suit the league.
Ajax were hdppy to sell Haller for a good prize. Makes you wonder.
The way Moyes has spoken about Scamacca I find it hard to believe he didn’t want him. I think it’s a bit of cop out to claim Moyes didn’t want any of these players, especially when mentioning our style of play.
Moyes has said on numerous occasions to develop we need to control games more and become better on the ball and our signings suggest that is the plan. The fact Moyes isn’t actually changing our tactics is baffling given what he has said, so only he knows why we continue to not use players in the correct way.
Burnley Hammer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:37 am
Countering doesn't just mean whacking a long ball forward for the striker to chase. If it's done properly then there's a whole passage of play before that. Other players should be getting up there in support quickly and overlapping. Our counter attacking is failing simply because we're not very good at it at the moment. We're not very good at anything at the moment. Passages of play are generally worked on a lot in training. I just fear that ours are very rigid and have become incredibly predictable.
Agree with that. Personally, I think we start Antonio on Boxing Day if the manager is still here as the system works with him in it rather than Scamacca. Though that also won’t be popular!
I wonder if Cornet is the missing link here ? He has real pace and 9 goals in a struggling Burnley side suggest he can finish. Was he supposed to be the Raspadori in the equation, providing speed and better opportunity for Scamacca and Paqueta to pay 1-2’s and “ 3rd man running “ football ? If that was the plan I still don’t see why Bowen couldn’t be played close to Scamacca, not as fast as Cornet we know he can score.
Moyes is undoubtedly too obstinate, but surely he can’t have bought Scamacca thinking he’d make him 2 yards faster and get him chasing punts over the top ?
We aren't getting the best out of someone who imo is a very good player,because we are not asking Scammaca to play like Scamacca, we are expecting him to play like Antonio. If Moyes was so obsessed with getting in another striker to share striking duties with Antonio and play the same way he should have intensified his pursuit of Broja, or at least someone similar in style to Broja. He is much more an Antonio style player than Scammaca.
It's the same with Paqueta. I haven't seen enough of Paqueta to really know what type of player he is but it has become very apparent in the short while he has been with us that he is totally unsuited fo what we, on present form, laughingly describe as our "system". I would have hoped that at the very least our recruitment team and Moyes would have known what sort of player they were buying. Worrying though it hightens my suspicion the You Tube blog doing the rounds about Silkman, the vertically challenged one's pet agent, playing a very big part in bringing Paqueta to the club might contain more than an element of truth.
Joined up recruitment thinking it most certainly is not.
hammers92 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 9:33 am
Some fair points in that post. I just think Scamacca plays a certain way and we need to build our side around him. He’s the big money striker and if we’re not playing to his own strengths, then that’s either tactical or a very bad signing.
I think Moyes was looking for a younger Antonio and Broja was that. I think either we play to Scamacca’s style or he doesn’t play at all.
I know we love to rewrite history when things suit but broja isn't anything like antonio , he is as slow as scamacca..
