Nottingham Forest 1-0 West Ham Utd (14/8/22)

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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by fjthegrey »

prophet:marginal wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:27 am And the ref was poor. I don't care that Henderson was behind the player, because when you look at the shape of his hands, as ball was struck by Souey, he would NOT have caught that shot. So, if the Forest player had not saved it himself, Mike was onside and in place to score with the rebound.
If the Forest defenders hand hadn't come out, he'd have been completely unsighted for it as well. That's the bit I'm struggling with, the argument that the keeper was behind the defender so it wasn't a clearly denied goal doesn't follow logic. The defender being in front of the keeper makes it much less likely it would have been saved.
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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by StevePottsGoalsReel »

OFT wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:00 am Re,the pen, I didn't see it but someone on here said Lingard gave Henderson the tip on where Dec would go
Henderson said afterwards that he'd seen Dec take plenty of penalties while training for England and was confident he knew where he'd try to put it.

Jesse was probably advising him on his celebration.
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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by il_martello_di_genovesi »

prophet:marginal wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:27 am he would NOT have caught that shot. So, if the Forest player had not saved it himself, Mike was onside and in place to score with the rebound.
Absolutely. It’s what I said Yesterday. I’m not accepting the keeper had that ‘covered’. The only reason for McKenna to do what he did was to try and stop it going in. Regardless of if it was, we don’t know for certain what Henderson could’ve done with it. There’s only one fact, and that got punished with a yellow. Ridiculous.
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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

Colours never run wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:33 am I'm giving the players and the manager the benefit of the doubt for now, due to it being the start of the season. Sure it's the same for all Teams but it's not unusual for some Teams (good or bad) to have initial teething problems at a beginning of a new season, on top of an injury crisis at the back. It's not like I don't see some good work happening as like yesterday showed we could on another day have scored a few but lady luck didnt look down on us kindly. It’s when it gets to 5 or more games I start to worry there's something more to it but for now, I'll be cutting them all some slack.

We're not currently playing well but we're also not playing horrendously, very much been in the game.
tbf our bad form stretches back a lot longer than the start of this season
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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by zinger549 »

Disappointing result, thought we played well and deserved to get something from the game. Benrahma had a really good game yesterday. If he keeps playing like that he should have a great season.
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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by Colours never run »

Crouchend_Hammer wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:38 am tbf our bad form stretches back a lot longer than the start of this season
I personally judge each season on it's own merit. Plus I did feel our main focus end of last season was in Europe so I cut them slack for that. As well as the lack of depth we had fur to lack of signings. I'm not concerned (yet).
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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by mattyD »

If anything the free kick given against Antonio was the other way. I just don't see how anyone can call that a foul on their player. Let alone anything that would have meant an advantage to us. An attrotious decision from a complete homer of a ref who should have sent the bloke off for what was a very good save. And he knew it.

Our reaction to the first one, as bad a decision as it was, was crap. We deflated like a bouncy castle.

And Dec shouldn't be taking penalties. He always puts them in the same place and generally they get saved. Bowen, Cress, Soucek, Benny... Should all be ahead in the queue.
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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by Kermit »

zinger549 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:48 am Disappointing result, thought we played well and deserved to get something from the game. Benrahma had a really good game yesterday. If he keeps playing like that he should have a great season.
Can't agree with you that we played well tbh. I though Forest looked like they will be this season's Norwich and Watford. A dreadful side, albeit with a decent striker they bought in from Germany and a good keeper in on loan. Granted we had a bit of bad luck with the two shots that hit the bar but my worry is that we didn't create any really clear openings against a side who were there for the taking.

Agree with you about Benrahma. I'm not his greatest fan but the little we did create yesterday largely came from him and he, at least, can hold his head up. The only other two I thought played anything like the required standard were Fabianski and Fornals. Antonio was, again, utterly useless and I have rarely seen Bowen have less impact on a game than he did yesterday. I am rapidly losing patience with Moyes insistence on keeping Antonio in the side. I think he has a use as an impact sub. Forest run about a lot and teams who run about a lot tend to tire and I think he could have come off the bench with 30 or so minutes left and maybe created some sort of impact against tiring legs. But as a starting striker for christ's sake---forget it.

Also irritates me more than a little to see so many people looking for excuses instead of accepting that we simply weren't very good yesterday.
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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by chigwells finest »

Kermit wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:13 am

Also irritates me more than a little to see so many people looking for excuses instead of accepting that we simply weren't very good yesterday.
we weren't great , but should of won the game
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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by Kermit »

chigwells finest wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:18 am we weren't great , but should of won the game
But we didn't. "Should of" doesn't get you the points does it ?
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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by il_martello_di_genovesi »

Kermit wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:20 am But we didn't. "Should of" doesn't get you the points does it ?
‘Should of’ does mean that there shouldn’t always be a need to overreact though. Why do you think we lost the game? If you think in part it’s because of a harshly disallowed goal, a penalty miss, a flukey goal conceded, hitting the bar twice, missing rebounds and a failure to send McKenna off, then you probably should give a little more thought into the ‘should of’ part of it.
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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by Danny's Dyer Acting »

Kermit wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:20 am But we didn't. "Should of" doesn't get you the points does it ?
I don't think it's looking for excuses for people to discuss whether we lost yesterday because there was something fundamentally wrong with the way we approached the game or because we didn't take the chances presented/gave the ref reasons to chalk off goals.

The former is a big problem, the latter far less so.
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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by Kermit »

il_martello_di_genovesi wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:24 am ‘Should of’ does mean that there shouldn’t always be a need to overreact though. Why do you think we lost the game? If you think in part it’s because of a harshly disallowed goal, a penalty miss, a flukey goal conceded, hitting the bar twice, missing rebounds and a failure to send McKenna off, then you probably should give a little more thought into the ‘should of’ part of it.
I get all of that. But hiding behind excuses is often a cover for a refusal to acknowledge the basic facts of the matter. I thought we were unlucky with the two shots off the bar but I also though Forest were unlucky with their correctly disallowed offside "goal". In all 3 instances a few millimetres the other way and the score could be 2-2 could it not ?

I didn't think our goal was harshly disallowed. My take on it was that Antonio could easily have avoided him had he wished and if the incident had happened against us and a goal allowed, trust me, people would be squealing like stuck pigs. A "flukey" goal conceded ? Possibly but it was rank bad defending. Sunday kids football at it's worst. Missing rebounds and missing a penalty ? Not bad luck, poor play on the part of the players responsible.

If you thought we played well that's your opinion. I thought we were the better side, particularly in the second half, but I think our performance yesterday will lose us more games than it will win us. Forest were awful. Imo this season's Norwich & Watford and we couldn't beat them.
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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by The Gibbins »

Frustrating game but fair play to Forest, went for it in the first half in the heat and got a goal from it. They defended well second half and of course rode their luck at times. I fancy them to stay up to be honest as they have a decent manager and good options up top with pace.

Frustrating day for us, we should have at the very least got a point but i dont think we need to worry yet. If the performance was terrible it would be another case but hitting the bar twice, having two cleared off the line, missing a penalty, forcing some great saves from the keeper...i think the effort and intent was there, just wasn't our day. For the life of me I do not understand why McKenna was not sent off, regardless of the keeper being there he has stopped a shot going goalwards deliberately with his arm..


Good to see Forest back in the league, the atmosphere sounded great on the TV.
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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by Crossd_Hammrs »

fjthegrey wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:35 am If the Forest defenders hand hadn't come out, he'd have been completely unsighted for it as well. That's the bit I'm struggling with, the argument that the keeper was behind the defender so it wasn't a clearly denied goal doesn't follow logic. The defender being in front of the keeper makes it much less likely it would have been saved.
According to Law 12, a handball is a red card if it's Denial Of a Goal-Scoring Opportunity, it doesn't have to be denying a definite goal, just denying the opportunity. It also doesn't have to be deliberate.
Unfortunately the Law then muddies itself by saying before ruling DOGSO the ref should consider distance from goal, direction of movement, position of other defenders etc.
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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by LeonRivers »

il_martello_di_genovesi wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:36 am Absolutely. It’s what I said Yesterday. I’m not accepting the keeper had that ‘covered’. The only reason for McKenna to do what he did was to try and stop it going in. Regardless of if it was, we don’t know for certain what Henderson could’ve done with it. There’s only one fact, and that got punished with a yellow. Ridiculous.
To put it even more simply, if it’s not a red then any ‘last man’ tackle ever cannot be a red card as the ‘keeper is still in position to save it.
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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by TheCharlatan »

One of the things I've been finding frustrating is when there is an opportunity for Fabianski to start a move quickly with a throw he doesn't,especially when scores are level.
Happened yesterday.
Teams are so well drilled now that quite often by the time we do get the ball moving they are all set in their position and are happy to see it go to a defender and then we struggle to get forward.
I know it's not possible to do it every time but mixing it up gives the opposition more to think about.

It feels and looks a little bit stale,some players have lost confidence as well.
We just need that little bit of luck and hopefully we will see the confidence come back and with that the creativity which we are missing.
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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by Absolutely Hammered! »

LeonRivers wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:04 pm To put it even more simply, if it’s not a red then any ‘last man’ tackle ever cannot be a red card as the ‘keeper is still in position to save it.
1000% agree. Incompetent reffing.
You also get the feeling that because it was Forrests home return to the PL they got the rub of the green on both VAR calls. Makes for a nice story.
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Re: ⚽ Nottingham Forest v West Ham United: match thread

Post by steps »

fjthegrey wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:35 am If the Forest defenders hand hadn't come out, he'd have been completely unsighted for it as well. That's the bit I'm struggling with, the argument that the keeper was behind the defender so it wasn't a clearly denied goal doesn't follow logic. The defender being in front of the keeper makes it much less likely it would have been saved.
This is how I see it. That Soucek shot was going in as the keeper was unsighted by the defender. If the defender didn’t intentionally stop the shot with his arm there’s a high percentage that it ends up in the net. It’s a red card all day.

The ref didn’t even consider this and let’s be honest, he was very generous to Forest with the disallowed goal. It’s because Forest stopped playing and started waving their arms about and getting in his ear which put doubt in his mind, lots of teams do that.
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