✍ Thilo Kehrer

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Take It to the Limit
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by Take It to the Limit »

lincolnhammer1963 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 6:41 pm Thats the problem with German products, they just don't make em like they use too.

This one needs to go back to the manufacturer, its faulty, seems to keep veering to left when it should be in the middle.
Somethings wrong with it
😂👍🏻
If only das Frankfurt had realised that last season before we left played them..
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Aztec Hammer
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by Aztec Hammer »

Ironing Board wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:33 pm What an odd list. The Spurs own goal?! Basically tapping it in as he desperately tried to clear from the Spurs forward. The Palace goal was 90% Dawson’s fault as well.

Players are humans and defenders will always make mistakes. For some reason a lot of people have it out for Kehrer, despite the fact he looks one of the better signings so far. He needs time to find his feet.
It makes me more confident that you disagree with me.

'Defenders will always make mistakes' is your excuse for him. Yeah, ok. That makes sense.

Ben Johnson hasn't made half as many in his entire career with us.
El brooko79
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by El brooko79 »

Aztec Hammer wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:19 am It makes me feel more confident that you disagree with me.

'Defenders will always make mistakes' is your excuse for him. Yeah, ok. That makes sense.

Ben Johnson hasn't made half as many in his entire career with us.
Objection. Speculative argument.
I'd like to see someone go through Ben's and Cresswell errors before we state facts like this.

Kehrer has certainly looked shakey. But that previous list attributed everything too him a bit OTT IMVHO.

I need a blame list of all goals conceded under Moyes.
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by Wilko1304 »

Getting rid of irrelevant Benrahma stuff. Something I am going to start doing across more threads as he is brought up constantly.
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Ironing Board
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by Ironing Board »

Aztec Hammer wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:19 am It makes me more confident that you disagree with me.

'Defenders will always make mistakes' is your excuse for him. Yeah, ok. That makes sense.

Ben Johnson hasn't made half as many in his entire career with us.
I doubt that very much.

And whether someone is pro or anti any argument is a poor way of judging the merits of an argument itself.
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by Wilko1304 »

Johnson also made a bigger, more simple error on that Liverpool goal, if memory serves me correctly. Stood off his man and allowed the cross, which is much easier to do a better job on than Kehrer being beaten by Nunez.

I also really hate the "exposed by a straight ball" arguments in the channels for full backs. If you aren't faster than your man, sometimes there is very little you can do if a good passer gets space to play a pass into space behind you.

I feel a little for him. The team isn't settled, he's adapting to a new league and has been moved about. Why is it that attacking and creative players get given "time to settle" but defenders don't?
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Ironing Board
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by Ironing Board »

Wilko1304 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:18 pm Johnson also made a bigger, more simple error on that Liverpool goal, if memory serves me correctly. Stood off his man and allowed the cross, which is much easier to do a better job on than Kehrer being beaten by Nunez.

I also really hate the "exposed by a straight ball" arguments in the channels for full backs. If you aren't faster than your man, sometimes there is very little you can do if a good passer gets space to play a pass into space behind you.

I feel a little for him. The team isn't settled, he's adapting to a new league and has been moved about. Why is it that attacking and creative players get given "time to settle" but defenders don't?
Yup. I know it isn’t popular in the modern “everything today” game, but all these players need to be given time to adapt and find their feet. It is not easy for even the best teams when they go through a big transition.

“The strongest of all warriors are these two; time and patience.” Leo Tolstoy
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Knighter10WHU
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by Knighter10WHU »

Wilko1304 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:18 pm
I feel a little for him. The team isn't settled, he's adapting to a new league and has been moved about. Why is it that attacking and creative players get given "time to settle" but defenders don't?
Because we have invested poorly at full back for many many years and need any new defenders to immediately come in and make an impact.
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by Wilko1304 »

Knighter10WHU wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:27 pm Because we have invested poorly at full back for many many years and need any new defenders to immediately come in and make an impact.
Unlike striker, where we have invested so heavily and consistently over the last few seasons and can give or take some goals?

Not sure that holds weight. We desperately need Scamacca and Paqueta to be producing much more, but they get words like "time" and "adapt" connected to them.
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by Colours never run »

Knighter10WHU wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:27 pm Because we have invested poorly at full back for many many years and need any new defenders to immediately come in and make an impact.
Ceesswell's been 1 of the best investments we've made, spent £6m on Masuaku intended to be his competition and another £15m on Emerson once we let Masuaku go. It's right back we've lacked major spending but saying that, we still have paid for Coufal £5.5m more recently and he's largely been a success here.

Going forward, if the likes of Coufal and Johnson are needlessly sold soon, I would like to see the Club focus on a new young specialist Right Back for a significant fee. Kehrer for me isn't the long term answer at Right Back, just not convinced by him.
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by Westbourne Bill »

He’s just played 90 mins for Germany tonight in central defence in a 1-0 win vs Oman.
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by Colours never run »

Oman - 7 shots 0 on target. They almost sound worse than us in front of goal!

For anyone who's interested, I'd recommend watching at least the first 15 minutes of the last game to see what Kehrer is like defensively as a Right Back. You'll notice Tony Gale (who knew a thing or two about the art of defending) commentate on the same things I and some others have addressed regarding his game. Like lacking positional sense, awareness of what's around him. Also that he makes the point himself about many mistakes he thinks he's been a part of and no one knowing his best position...

https://sblongvu.com/i7kjgxoer456.html

Glad to see a respected pundit highlight the same issues I and others have also observed throughout the season. 👍
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Aztec Hammer
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by Aztec Hammer »

Wilko1304 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:18 pm
I also really hate the "exposed by a straight ball" arguments in the channels for full backs. If you aren't faster than your man, sometimes there is very little you can do if a good passer gets space to play a pass into space behind you.
So then you've been exposed for pace surely.

I want to like Kehrer, he has the passing skills we need to be able to play higher up the pitch. But you can't make as many rickets as he does on a game-to-game basis and expect to make it as a starter in the Premier League.

I understand he's a new signing and it's more fashionable to protect him and make excuses for him than it is for someone like Ben Johnson, but it's the reality of his time here so far. Not quite good enough yet, whether you want to call them direct mistakes or not.

His physique is a major issue I think. It's almost rendering him a player without a position. In this league, opposition will eat you alive once they realise you have limitations in certain aspects. Wouldn't be surprised if DM was the position he played best for us in.
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by Wilko1304 »

Aztec Hammer wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:11 am So then you've been exposed for pace surely.

I want to like Kehrer, he has the passing skills we need to be able to play higher up the pitch. But you can't make as many rickets as he does on a game-to-game basis and expect to make it as a starter in the Premier League.

I understand he's a new signing and it's more fashionable to protect him and make excuses for him than it is for someone like Ben Johnson, but it's the reality of his time here so far. Not quite good enough yet, whether you want to call them direct mistakes or not.

His physique is a major issue I think. It's almost rendering him a player without a position. In this league, opposition will eat you alive once they realise you have limitations in certain aspects. Wouldn't be surprised if DM was the position he played best for us in.
Anyone can get exposed for pace. It isn’t the damning verdict people think it is, especially on one individual. If you’re exposed to a one-on-one pass around the back of you, the likelihood is there has been at least one mistake made in front of you. I’m not saying he’s not also done something wrong, but it’s made out to be this massive deal when it’s almost inevitable.

Funnily enough, I think Ben Johnson gets excuses made for him constantly by people who are blind cos he’s an academy graduate. The fact a Kehrer mistake was highlighted that actively ignored the bigger error from Johnson is kinda proof. And

I do not understand how his physique is an issue, especially for right back.

He’s been here a few months, arriving a bit late, thrown into the centre back role straight away in a crisis. Then it’s right back, then centre back in a three, so on, so forth.

He has got a rash error in him in every game, some important, some not. But the defence of him was that he is not being allowed the same grace and time as Scamacca and Paqueta, which I can only put down to people being invested in those two working. I would go as far as to say that it’s a lot of people protecting their own ego because they went big on the two marquee signings.

Kehrer is easy pickings, and defenders don’t get the time attacking players do. The latter part of that was my point to begin with.
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by il_martello_di_genovesi »

Colours never run wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:21 pm Glad to see a respected pundit
Who's connected to West Ham and clearly will be using any mistakes for his club when judging him. They kept a clean sheet and won the game. No evidence that he was making any mistakes, so not really sure what this is about.
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by hammerman11 »

least of our worries when compared to others such as scamacca and paqueta
a 10m fee is fai r enough but so far I dont see him as a starting RB , good cover though
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by Aztec Hammer »

Wilko1304 wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:57 pm
He has got a rash error in him in every game, some important, some not. But the defence of him was that he is not being allowed the same grace and time as Scamacca and Paqueta, which I can only put down to people being invested in those two working. I would go as far as to say that it’s a lot of people protecting their own ego because they went big on the two marquee signings.

Kehrer is easy pickings, and defenders don’t get the time attacking players do. The latter part of that was my point to begin with.
We agree he is a ricket a game then. That's a problem.

As well as Paqueta and Scamacca costing so much more, I agree that the other reason is because Kehrer plays in defence. Paqueta and Scamacca might not be assisting and scoring a goal every game and people will notice that, but it's much more glaring when a defender is giving a goal/big chance a game.

Like how when a goalkeeper makes errors it's so much more highlighted than when attackers are barren.

Still - those errors exist and currently we're in a predicament where even if we want to give Kehrer time to get acclimatised, we might not have it to offer. I'm going into games now expecting us to crumble defensively at a key moment, with it probably having Kehrer involved in the midst of it.

His physique to me is an issue because he just doesn't seem strong enough, CB or RB. He ends up on the deck a lot or beaten in the air. Not the fastest guy either to make up for it. Take Bournemouth for example when Thilo was playing CB. They subbed on that lump Moore and he was dominating him in the air for that last twenty minutes or whatever it was. Theoretically less of a problem at RB, but if you are susceptible to getting jumped on at the back stick or outpaced down the channel, it's not ideal.

Hopefully he can settle into a role in the team where the good he brings outweighs the bad. Because he does bring a number of good attributes. I'm just not quite sure where that role is yet though.
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by Knighter10WHU »

Wilko1304 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:29 pm Unlike striker, where we have invested so heavily and consistently over the last few seasons and can give or take some goals?

Not sure that holds weight. We desperately need Scamacca and Paqueta to be producing much more, but they get words like "time" and "adapt" connected to them.
Difference is Scamacca has Antonio to compete with, Paqueta has Fornals, Lanzini, Benhrama all capable of playing in "his" position adequately.

Kehrer came in when Johnson and Coufal were out of form at RB and we didn't have any fit CBs (not counting Zouma as a fit CB because he clearly isnt). The CB situation combined with the poor form of the RBs meant Kehrer didn't have time to bed in. I think he's done well considering and is least of our worries when it comes to thinking about the new signings this summer.
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by Wilko1304 »

Exactly. He’s playing right back because the two ahead of him have both got problems.

I would guess that getting him more consistent at the back is more likely than Johnson finding any attacking verve or passing soon, and more likely than Coufal’s passing improving.

Saying that, I do think we’re missing Vlad’s presence on the right. He’s not great playing out, but he’s quite productive in attack and can hold a flank alone.
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Re: ✍ Thilo Kehrer

Post by Wilko1304 »

Aztec Hammer wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:25 pm His physique to me is an issue because he just doesn't seem strong enough, CB or RB. He ends up on the deck a lot or beaten in the air. Not the fastest guy either to make up for it. Take Bournemouth for example when Thilo was playing CB. They subbed on that lump Moore and he was dominating him in the air for that last twenty minutes or whatever it was. Theoretically less of a problem at RB, but if you are susceptible to getting jumped on at the back stick or outpaced down the channel, it's not ideal.
I don’t really get this. He’s built not too dissimilar to Johnson and Coufal, has pace enough to at least match them, too. Neither I’d want 1-on-1 with Moore, but we didn’t have such obvious issues last season with either.

Whilst you can mention the Moore thing, I haven’t seen a single West Ham player defend Son like he did (and labelling that own goal as his mistake is criminal!).

For me, he’s a right centre back in a three or a right back. But, really, we probably need to stop diagnosing individual problems in a team covered in them, but probably think that it’s a squad and core issue the team has.

Although Jack has real issues with Kehrer so i sense I’m going to be taught how wrong I am soon. :D

But, yea, I’m not here to say he’s working well. Just think he deserves a little slack
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