West Ham Utd 0-2 Brighton & Hove Albion (21/8/22)

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by MB »

prophet:marginal wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:39 am Who, realistically, would be looking to sign Antonio and Cresswell?
Forest?
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by mushy »

MilkyBarKid16 wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:55 pm A fresh pair of eyes would start Scamacca and Cornet ahead of Antonio and Benrahma in a heartbeat.

A fresh pair of eyes would have also noted the multiple posts on this thread why Cornet and Scammaca are not able to start.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Up the Junction »

costa75 wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:05 pmI’m not buying this... Even if he isn’t 100% fit, surely the big money signing should start in front of Antonio who’s recent scoring record in The PL is woeful.
Well as you appear to know more than the management team, whose job it is to make those decisions, about the current condition of our players and their suitability to being exposed to the rigours of Premier League football - who am I to argue?
costa75 wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:05 pmAs for the “negative impact” on our established players if we play our new signings? Do you think Arsenal/Spurs/Chelsea and other clubs we have to compete with to get into the top six have not put their new signings straight in? Yes they have.
No, they haven't.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by the pink palermo »

prophet:marginal wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:39 am Who, realistically, would be looking to sign Antonio and Cresswell?
Antonio ? Palace, Brentford, Everton, Newcastle.

Cresswell ? Arsenal, Tottenham, Fulham, Brentford, Brighton.

If our supporters think they are crap we could hardly complain if they were sold for buttons.......

Both would as a minimum be a useful squad addition for almost any PL side, which is exactly what they are gpoing to be soon for us.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Romfordboy »

On current form Antonio would struggle to get into any of those team apart from Everton

I think you are being very kind to cresswell… I honestly would not see him starting for any other premiership club

Ps I missed the end of your post, yes agree good for the squad only
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by the pink palermo »

Romfordboy wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:58 am On current form Antonio would struggle to get into any of those team apart from Everton
Antonio would play every week for all of them.

The obsession some of our fans have with strikers = goal scorers is incredible, especially when they work the equation backwards i.e if he isn't scoring he isn't worth his place in the team.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Romfordboy »

I couldn’t care less about the goals he scores… have you seen his work rate/ball retention/ passing in the first 4 games.

He is done after 50 mins and has to go to the left while fornals chases down defenders…. And his ball retention is close to zero it’s is just bouncing off him and coming straight back!

I think Antonio has been phenomenal for us but he has definitely lost some pace and defenders are able to isolate and control him far easier because of it.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by mattyD »

Romfordboy wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:16 am I couldn’t care less about the goals he scores… have you seen his work rate/ball retention/ passing in the first 4 games.

He is done after 50 mins and has to go to the left while fornals chases down defenders…. And his ball retention is close to zero it’s is just bouncing off him and coming straight back!

I think Antonio has been phenomenal for us but he has definitely lost some pace and defenders are able to isolate and control him far easier because of it.
Thing with Antonio has been essential to how we play since Moyes came back, but teams have known this for a while and make sure he goes nowhere, either by fouling, which refs hardly give, or two man marking. Teams know they stop Antonio they cut out our main pattern of play. That has to be addressed. We need to learn how to play with someone less mobile who can't do what he does, an orthodox CF. Brighton are doing it fine with Wellbeck. Then you can still use Antonio for what he's good at - pace power, getting us up the pitch. It just wouldn't be the main, or only, focal point to our play. How Moyes balances that we'll have to wait and see.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Estuary »

mattyD wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:37 am Thing with Antonio has been essential to how we play since Moyes came back, but teams have known this for a while and make sure he goes nowhere, either by fouling, which refs hardly give, or two man marking. Teams know they stop Antonio they cut out our main pattern of play. That has to be addressed. We need to learn how to play with someone less mobile who can't do what he does, an orthodox CF. Brighton are doing it fine with Wellbeck. Then you can still use Antonio for what he's good at - pace power, getting us up the pitch. It just wouldn't be the main, or only, focal point to our play. How Moyes balances that we'll have to wait and see.
I agree with all of your point except about Welbeck, who dragged our defence all over the gaff. It was his run beyond our back line that got them the pen. If all Scamacca does is front up without running in behind or wide we will continue to struggle.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by the pink palermo »

Romfordboy wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:16 am I couldn’t care less about the goals he scores… have you seen his work rate/ball retention/ passing in the first 4 games.

He is done after 50 mins and has to go to the left while fornals chases down defenders…. And his ball retention is close to zero it’s is just bouncing off him and coming straight back!

I think Antonio has been phenomenal for us but he has definitely lost some pace and defenders are able to isolate and control him far easier because of it.
Poor against City, otherwise ok imo.
mattyD wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:37 am
Thing with Antonio has been essential to how we play since Moyes came back, but teams have known this for a while and make sure he goes nowhere, either by fouling, which refs hardly give, or two man marking.
But thats what makes him valuable, he is creating space for others to exploit, it's their inability to do so that is hurting us, not Antonios contribution.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Up the Junction »

A postscript to the match.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Clacton-ammer »

I didn't want to post yesterday as I still had the hump from the game and didn't want to write anything that I would regret. So after reflection I can confirm that we were a big steaming pile of poo.

Thought after Thursday it would give us a boost, plus I know we we were struggling with form towards the end of last season but I put that down to Europe, and I was ok with that. There does appear to be a few things wrong presently, too many of our players are off it. If in 2 more games and no points and not a positive change to the team dynamics then feel we have a real problem.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by mattyD »

Estuary wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:42 am I agree with all of your point except about Welbeck, who dragged our defence all over the gaff. It was his run beyond our back line that got them the pen. If all Scamacca does is front up without running in behind or wide we will continue to struggle.
Yes, whoever's up front needs to do that. Pretty sure Scamacca can.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Albie Beck »

Estuary wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:42 am I agree with all of your point except about Welbeck, who dragged our defence all over the gaff. It was his run beyond our back line that got them the pen. If all Scamacca does is front up without running in behind or wide we will continue to struggle.
mattyD wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:53 pm Yes, whoever's up front needs to do that. Pretty sure Scamacca can.
It's not so much the striker running in behind- obviously they should be able to do that from time to time, but it's having other runners going beyond. That's really what we are lacking, because Scamacca can play lots of flick-ons and round the corners for people (like BHA's second) but there's no-one.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by prophet:marginal »

the pink palermo wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:53 am Antonio ? Palace, Brentford, Everton, Newcastle.

Cresswell ? Arsenal, Tottenham, Fulham, Brentford, Brighton.

If our supporters think they are crap we could hardly complain if they were sold for buttons.......

Both would as a minimum be a useful squad addition for almost any PL side, which is exactly what they are gpoing to be soon for us.
And these clubs have made those enquiries, or you're assuming they'd be interested?
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by the pink palermo »

prophet:marginal wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:11 pm And these clubs have made those enquiries, or you're assuming they'd be interested?
1st q - we, none of us know
2nd Q- Yep, in a trolley dash on August 31st.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by prophet:marginal »

So, last day of window and as many as 5 clubs are going to be outbidding one another for our senior players?
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by EastBrisHammer »

I reckon if we get rid of the pop up of Pep Guardiola from this website and replace it with something different we might start winning games. I think it is a solid theory. I must remember to wear my lucky underpants next time too.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Croydon »

Romfordboy wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:16 am "I couldn’t care less about the goals he scores… have you seen his work rate...?"

"He is done after 50 mins"
Is he knackered by 50 without putting in the effort?

In the Brighton game I was very impressed with Antonio's work rate, his tracking back and his willingness to keep running. We all know he's not the best technically, but he's never been good at that so why are you judging him on it now?

Maybe if Bowen wasn't having a stinker, or if Benrahma made a few better decisions per game, Antonio wouldn't be running up blind alleys.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Estuary »

Croydon wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:10 pm Is he knackered by 50 without putting in the effort?

In the Brighton game I was very impressed with Antonio's work rate, his tracking back and his willingness to keep running. We all know he's not the best technically, but he's never been good at that so why are you judging him on it now?

Maybe if Bowen wasn't having a stinker, or if Benrahma made a few better decisions per game, Antonio wouldn't be running up blind alleys.

Work rate? Antonio works his nuts off. At one point Brighton had a clear breakaway and Antonio ran nearly the entire length of the pitch flat out to overtake and tackle the Brighton winger. Work rate and stamina are not the issue, getting him the ball so he can threaten the oppo goal is.
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