West Ham Utd 0-2 Brighton & Hove Albion (21/8/22)

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by aboooooooooo »

Sticky wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:54 am Anyone got the pass completion stats for yesterday? I bet they'll make for horrific reading.
No Idea, but it looked like Ben Johnson made more forward passes in his short time playing that Coufal did all match. I know we were chasing and the game was set up differently but at least 3 times Johnson moved the ball quickly and looked to attack. A couple of other occasions he looked up and nobody showed for the ball at all. He wanted to play and people around him wanted to hide.

He should be starting at RB for me..
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Ethanadict »

IronZ-79 wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:59 am The topic of new players not starting....if they've not had a preseason they are simply not ready. The manager is right in not risking them with that being the case.

Any football fan or anyone that's played football should know this. People are talking out their backsides if they think they should be playing.

My issue is with thr formation we chose to play. We needed to match them and Moyes should have known this considering how they've got results against us previously.

It's important we don't get in a rut and start getting points on the board by going back to basics.
Totally agree on both points. Kehrer was put straight in over an established player like Ogbonna because he's been training and because he was fit enough. That really ought to be enough to put this particular moan to bed.

I want to see more of Scamacca like everyone else, but he wasn't fit enough and he's now getting progressively more game time - let's trust the manger and coaches who see the players every day in training on this one.

Equally though, as much as I like Moyes at our club I don't think he's perfect and as I said in an earlier post, this match was mostly about Moyes setting us up wrong, getting the tactics wrong and then being too inflexible to change it. Player for player you'd rather have our squad than Brighton's.

Last season and the previous one Moyes made the sum of the parts greater than the whole. Yesterday was the opposite.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by paulhs1 »

pezza20 wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:44 am
Moyes is to blame here. At half time he should have listened to McKinley and Warburton who were upstairs and changed formation to give us more of a foot Harold, but it appears that like his stubbornness on subs, he refuses to accept the formation isn’t working and seems to believe sticking with what we are doing will somehow turn things around.
I reckon if Moyes walked in to a job interview and was asked what his biggest weakness is, he would be honest and state that he's too stubborn.

He is one of those guys that has a set way and just doesn't deviate. It's not just formation, players and when to make substitutions but it's also his stubbornness in wanting to work on a year by year basis as opposed to a window by window basis.....I very much doubt that we bring in any new players in January even if its desperately required.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by mushy »

upton o'good wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:51 am Um, I think in both matches we started reasonably well - for about the first 5 minutes or so. Hut both Man City and Brighton were running the game long before the penalties. I was certianly thinking matter of time before they score before the penalty yesterday.
I agree, Brighton were better in attack, midfield and defence then we were.
Brighton are better then us, it's that simple.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Coops »

Zouma's brain fart changed the game. Before he gave the ball away, which led to the penalty, we looked most likely to score. After that Brighton kept the ball and we didn't look like we had a clue what to do with it when we did get it.

I have read the arguments on here about Cresswell. He wasn't our worst defender yesterday, but that really isn't saying much. He is too slow and is giving far too many free kicks away, putting us under pressure. He has been a great servant to this club, but I do think it is time that he moved to the role of understudy and a replacement was brought in.

Something is not right in the squad. Moyes has earnt the time to figure it out, he has had us punching above our weight for the last two seasons. But the wheels seem to have fallen off and he needs to ring the changes quickly otherwise it is going to be a long hard season.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Up the Junction »

Ethanadict wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:09 pmKehrer was put straight in over an established player like Ogbonna because he's been training and because he was fit enough.
Kehrer played because Ogbonna isn't ready to. He's had no more of a pre-season than Cornet or Scamacca; he was training on his own for at least part of the summer.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by GetUrWangOut »

pezza20 wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:16 pm People moan about Coufal but he is twice the player Cresswell is now.
I actually only watched yesterdays game on motd and listened on radio but honestly feel like Coufal has been the weak link for us so far. Both need replacing really. Hopefully we get the new lb in and Johnson now takes over from Coufal (or does Kehrer go out there went all are fit?)
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by prophet:marginal »

Coufal's movement and effort was what sparked us into life on Thursday last.

The problem in the league isn't down to one player - as much as this site seems to need a whipping boy or two - but more a question of thewhole team unfit and uninspired. I watched last Thurs with a mate who supports a different team. He asked, after about 10 minutes, what was going on in our dressing room; we were unrecognisable to him.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by S-H »

prophet:marginal wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:41 pm He asked, after about 10 minutes, what was going on in our dressing room; we were unrecognisable to him.
Could it be..

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Duff »

Scamacca's been here for a month, I'm sure he could manage 60 minutes. Why not start him and bring Antonio on to run at a tiring defence?

Antonio is struggling for goals and Scamacca's shown enough to be given the chance plus Antonio's attributes would be even more effective at that stage of the game. It's got to be worth a try.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Clyde Best »

Watching yesterday there was a clear difference between the teams, Brighton worked their arses off to create movement and space, they passed and moved and new where the next out ball would need to go, they often played simple triangles that left our lot flat footed and chasing. They worked hard to support each other with and without the ball. We on the other hand played passes and then sat back and admired them, there was one point where Rice played a 30 yard pass to Benny to set him off down the left wing, he was immediately swamped by 4 Brighton players and all he could do was hit a cross into the Brighton penalty area in the vain hope someone had made a run, meanwhile Rice was simply jogging towards him, no effort to help him or provide him with an option. Not digging Rice out here, there were plenty of other examples where we simply did not make the effort, or didn't seem to want the ball. I don't mind losing to well drilled teams like Brighton, I do mind if West Ham players don't put in the required effort to compete in a game.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Hockley Hammer »

I wonder if yesterday was when the manager with a few new players here decided to give the players that have served us well in the last two seasons a game to show why they and not the new boys should be there.

The players must know we are in the start of a transition and if you want to stay in the side show the manager that you deserve to be in it.

Most, especially the front six players failed miserably.

When we were at our best in the last two seasons the side put in lots of 7/10 performances or better all over the pitch game after game.

That hasn't happened for some time. You don't win PL matches with a couple of 5/10 performances as your best performers.

As somebody said Brighton did all the basics right from start to finish. Something we seem incapable of at the moment.

When Lanzini came on he actually ran into space and asked for the ball, laid it off and moved on to receive it again. I couldn't believe how noticeable it was that one our players was actually demanding the ball.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Ingwe »

At least this ends our “we are massive!” BS. To be replaced with “We are passive!”
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by El brooko79 »

Duff wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:28 pm Scamacca's been here for a month, I'm sure he could manage 60 minutes. Why not start him and bring Antonio on to run at a tiring defence?
What are the chances Cornet starts upfront vs Villa?
We certainly need to use the ball better to get a tune out of Scamacca.

Have a feeling this weekend we will be going back to basics, deep and try and catch Villa on the break who are under pressure also and home fans will expect them to go for it.
Not saying its right but I expect Antonio. Cornet and Bowen as a front 3 vs Villa
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by steps »

Scamacca was deemed fit enough to start in the ECL game Thursday night.

After scoring in that I think he deserved a start yesterday. We needed to try something different as I feel Moyes didn’t give Potter a lot to think about yesterday. Brighton know how to play against us and do it quite successfully.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Bubbles Fortuna »

steps wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:36 pm Scamacca was deemed fit enough to start in the ECL game Thursday night.

After scoring in that I think he deserved a start yesterday. We needed to try something different as I feel Moyes didn’t give Potter a lot to think about yesterday. Brighton know how to play against us and do it quite successfully.
Antonio also scored in the ECL game, has hit double figures three years in a row and was one of our better players against Forest.

Scamacca hasn't done enough to bench Antonio, one goal against a Danish team doesn't change that.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Vic_Watson »

Up the Junction wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:05 am

And that's without mentioning the hugely negative impact doing so would have on the established players that have served the club so well over the course of the last two seasons.
The pussycat approach. Really successful managers don't worry about such things. It is a challenge to the established players to get better and win their spots back.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Estuary »

In terms of Scamacca or Antonio leading the line I don't think it matters, our passing into the forward positions is so poor we could have prime Tony Cottee and still not score and it's been that way since teams worked out how to defend against us to nullify the counter attacking threat. Drop off and defend the 18 yard line and West Ham will struggle as we don't have a passer good enough to open up the defence nor do we cross the ball sufficiently well, neither with the timing or the accuracy, to retain the advantage.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by sendô »

If anyone could be bothered to rewatch the full 90 minutes of that match, they'd see many instances where our defence don't just play the ball lethargically side to side, but they all take 2 or 3 touches every time they do, with the first touch often a mis control, and so the second touch the actual control.

Even when we pass the ball sideways along the back line - something we've do so much of - we're ponderous. What is the point in switching play to the other flank when you do it so slowly the opposition can walk across the pith to cover it off?

It will always go left back to left centre back, to right centre back to right back. At best. Often it will go back to Fabianski somewhere in there too. Never from left centre back right up to an advancing Coufal to speed things up. Never with Rice or Soucek moving across to offer Coufal a triangle to give and go.

Always the same slow, predictable, easy to defend *****.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Duff »

Bubbles Fortuna wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:51 pm Antonio also scored in the ECL game, has hit double figures three years in a row and was one of our better players against Forest.

Scamacca hasn't done enough to bench Antonio, one goal against a Danish team doesn't change that.
Antonio has scored 3 goals in the Premier League in 2022 (I believe). Surely now we've finally got a new striker we should give him a chance.

Not saying it will solve the many problems we had yesterday but I think he's done enough and showed some nice touches and link up that Antonio wasn't really doing yesterday.
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