West Ham Utd 0-2 Brighton & Hove Albion (21/8/22)

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Danny's Dyer Acting »

unmartillo wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:44 am The other aspect missing this season is Noble. I wonder if his presence no longer being in the dressing room is a contributing factor :chin:
I think people are massively overstating this. Where was this mythical presence of Nobles in the dressing when things turned sour under Billic and Pellegrini?

I'll buy the idea that he'd be taking a bit of pressure off of Rice with some of the extra curricular stuff a captain has to do but the lack of Mark Noble at Chadwell Heath and in the dressing room is way down the list of issues this season.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Bond Holder 59 »

unmartillo wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:44 am The other aspect missing this season is Noble. I wonder if his presence no longer being in the dressing room is a contributing factor :chin:
Similar vein, but I think the thing missing is an on the pitch leader. Doing it by example ……..Dawson.

Rice is rightly the captain, with his media training, high profile, international status, but he’s young and not yet able to consistently ‘ spark’ a game. In addition, he’s got off field distractions at the moment with his new family. We need to give him a break, he’s earned it, but he needs to do his bit and fight back soon. Side point: anyone else noted Rice has conceded a few unnecessary yellow cards already this season? He’s over trying after a personal error - understandably.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Up the Junction »

essexman62 wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:57 am Why buy players and not play them from the start?
This has been explained many times - because they're not match fit. Scamacca, Cornet, Kehrer, none have had the benefit of a full pre-season programme.

And that's without mentioning the hugely negative impact doing so would have on the established players that have served the club so well over the course of the last two seasons.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Absolutely Hammered! »

I think not having 2 recognised / dependable CBs is really hurting us and oggy and Dawson need to come back ASAP. Why kehrer went to ground is anyone's guess as there was no need. Welbeck was at a tough angle and if he scores then fair enough, but at least let the striker earn the goal... don't give him a gift of a penalty ffs.

Before the man City pen we looked comfortable and not sure they troubled us before then.
Before the Brighton penalty we looked comfortable and they didbt trouble us before then.
Can't keep giving sides 1 goal head starts at this level as statistically its so hard to come back.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Puff Daddy »

For or specialised subject, playing football, we got 0 points, scored 0 goals and 0 passes
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by TokyoVibe »

I really, really hope we can turn this around. Some people were saying in the 1st game, `its man city, what can we expect`, but for a large part of that game we were totally dominated against Brighton, at times we couldn`t get the ball at all. It was actually quite embarrasing.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Diogenes »

Trying to look at the game objectively, until the daft penalty we were ok and Brighton hadn't laid a glove on us. That seemed to knock the stuffing out if us for the rest of the half. Second half, much better attitude and intensity, then another goal from nowhere to Brighton and we (and the team) knew we were buggered. Brighton are a very 'average' premiership side but well drilled and pretty boring to wattch (IMO), but we were less than average.

As I said in another thread, we are starting our preseason in a 'live' scenario. Our lack of fitness and intensity is obvious. Add to that, fresh faces who are even further behind in their match readiness and reasons for our poor start are clear. Perhaps by October we may be at a level we should be at now. Lets hope we are still in touch then.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by upton o'good »

Absolutely Hammered! wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:19 am I think not having 2 recognised / dependable CBs is really hurting us and oggy and Dawson need to come back ASAP. Why kehrer went to ground is anyone's guess as there was no need. Welbeck was at a tough angle and if he scores then fair enough, but at least let the striker earn the goal... don't give him a gift of a penalty ffs.

Before the man City pen we looked comfortable and not sure they troubled us before then.
Before the Brighton penalty we looked comfortable and they didbt trouble us before then.
Can't keep giving sides 1 goal head starts at this level as statistically its so hard to come back.
Um, I think in both matches we started reasonably well - for about the first 5 minutes or so. Hut both Man City and Brighton were running the game long before the penalties. I was certianly thinking matter of time before they score before the penalty yesterday.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by upton o'good »

Diogenes wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:29 am Trying to look at the game objectively, until the daft penalty we were ok and Brighton hadn't laid a glove on us. That seemed to knock the stuffing out if us for the rest of the half. Second half, much better attitude and intensity, then another goal from nowhere to Brighton and we (and the team) knew we were buggered. Brighton are a very 'average' premiership side but well drilled and pretty boring to wattch (IMO), but we were less than average.

As I said in another thread, we are starting our preseason in a 'live' scenario. Our lack of fitness and intensity is obvious. Add to that, fresh faces who are even further behind in their match readiness and reasons for our poor start are clear. Perhaps by October we may be at a level we should be at now. Lets hope we are still in touch then.
I think we must have watched differnt games. They were well on top for most of the match. And certianly after they got the pen, they certianly looked like the team most likely to score. (even at 2 up they were creating chances).
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Absolutely Hammered! »

upton o'good wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:51 am Um, I think in both matches we started reasonably well - for about the first 5 minutes or so. Hut both Man City and Brighton were running the game long before the penalties. I was certianly thinking matter of time before they score before the penalty yesterday.
We were the better side before we gifted Brighton a penalty and Brighton werent even knocking on the door. Admittedly after the penalty they just kept the ball, we crumbled and offered nothing while chasing shadows for the rest of the game.
Very easy win for Brighton in the end.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by S-H »

If we are sticking to a back four vs Villa.

I'd be tempted to go for..

Kehrer - Zouma - Ogbonna - Cresswell
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by pezza20 »

As poorly as we played, Fabianski had zero to do in that game. Not one save of note in the entire 90 minutes. He was worked harder in the Forest game.

Issue we all have is how poor we were, the fact Brighton played it around with ease, no pressure, the press was non existent, and we were continuously outnumbered in midfield.

Potter did the same as City, and flooded the midfield areas where we have 3 against their 5, by the time we pressed they could play around us, either using the spare man or going back where we had 1 up top covering their entire back three, rinse and repeat.

Moyes is to blame here. At half time he should have listened to McKinley and Warburton who were upstairs and changed formation to give us more of a foot Harold, but it appears that like his stubbornness on subs, he refuses to accept the formation isn’t working and seems to believe sticking with what we are doing will somehow turn things around.

Teams have worked us out now, every game works out the same, hence the many defeats and off a cliff face end to last season. Moyes needs to move with the times and surprise a few managers.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by YorksHammer »

pezza20 wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:44 am Moyes is to blame here. At half time he should have listened to McKinley and Warburton who were upstairs and changed formation to give us more of a foot Harold, but it appears that like his stubbornness on subs, he refuses to accept the formation isn’t working and seems to believe sticking with what we are doing will somehow turn things around.
I forget now who said it, but I think it was attributed to Benitez's time at Liverpool against Moyes. In essence Rafa knew that Moyes had one way of setting up for a game - not just in general, but for a game - and so he would line-up for the first kick off but then almost immediately switch the formation to something else and Moyes wouldn't know what to do.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Ethanadict »

Diogenes wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:29 am Trying to look at the game objectively, until the daft penalty we were ok and Brighton hadn't laid a glove on us. That seemed to knock the stuffing out if us for the rest of the half. Second half, much better attitude and intensity, then another goal from nowhere to Brighton and we (and the team) knew we were buggered. Brighton are a very 'average' premiership side but well drilled and pretty boring to wattch (IMO), but we were less than average.

As I said in another thread, we are starting our preseason in a 'live' scenario. Our lack of fitness and intensity is obvious. Add to that, fresh faces who are even further behind in their match readiness and reasons for our poor start are clear. Perhaps by October we may be at a level we should be at now. Lets hope we are still in touch then.
The trouble is, we allowed both Citeh and Brighton so much possession in midfield (one may be excusable, one is not) and we allowed them to continually run at our defence or play slip passes through, so then, them getting a penalty isn't so much of a surprise it almost becomes an inevitability.

People used to complain about Man U always getting penalties in the 90s (a bit like Liverpool now) but if you're constantly attacking and running at defenders in their own box, probability would suggest there will be a penalty at some point.

Put it another way - can you remember us ever dribbling past any Brighton players in their own box to force a tackle? I can't.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Sticky »

Anyone got the pass completion stats for yesterday? I bet they'll make for horrific reading.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by kitthehammer »

i think people are missing the point a bit.
The reality is, 70% of that match brighton were the better team in their movement, dominance of midfield and scoring.
We had chances and didn't finish them, our midfield was missing and there was little movement.
1&3 are down to the players, 2 is down to the manager being out-thought by the opposition manager and not changing it.

Every move going forwards we had to have about ten passes around the defence then try and cross the ball in badly.
Brighton, time after time went through the middle or played balls over us from midfield to the strikers. It's like we can't do the same.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by kitthehammer »

Sticky wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:54 am Anyone got the pass completion stats for yesterday? I bet they'll make for horrific reading.
if so surely that isn't just down to our bad passing, its down to being closed down and no movement from our players to make space for themselves?
and also down to how we are set up?
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by IronZ-79 »

The topic of new players not starting....if they've not had a preseason they are simply not ready. The manager is right in not risking them with that being the case.

Any football fan or anyone that's played football should know this. People are talking out their backsides if they think they should be playing.

My issue is with thr formation we chose to play. We needed to match them and Moyes should have known this considering how they've got results against us previously.

It's important we don't get in a rut and start getting points on the board by going back to basics.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by Ethanadict »

S-H wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:16 am If we are sticking to a back four vs Villa.

I'd be tempted to go for..

Kehrer - Zouma - Ogbonna - Cresswell
Yeah I like that. With Rice and Soucek CDMs, plus whichever three AM, plus Scamacca.

That would also give the option to switch to wing backs, by putting in Coufal/Johnson. Something like...
Fabianski
Kehrer, Zouma, Ogbonna
Coufal, Rice, Soucek, Fornals, Cresswell
Bowen
Scamacca

A lack of pace down our left side worries me though.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd vs Brighton & Hove Albion: Match Thread

Post by PumaKing »

We never had control of the game and never looked like we ever would, we had no one but no one to take the game by the scruff of the neck, and work hard and take them on. A poor leggy performance from all aspects and unless the players take ownership and up their game its going to be a long season.
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