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mickthekeeper
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by mickthekeeper »

What is it with some of our fans?

We’re less than half way through the season, as a team we’re playing crap and ultra defensive and our negative tactics, with 10 behind the ball that aren’t conducive to any creativity and already we should be selling him and he’s a waste of money.

Same with Kehrer and Scamacca - 20ish games into the season and they’ve already been written off and we should be selling them.

Play to their strengths and give them time ffs
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by DusseldorfHammer »

Misko wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:24 pm I've ever seen something like that in my whole supporter life. The players can't even counter attack, every single opponent is faster than them.
Bosz calls his methods FKT. It's Raymond Verheijen's work. A notorious fitness-guru on twitter.
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by steveyrockstar »

It's absurd to be writing him off at this stage - he's clearly got incredible ability - but he has been, on the whole, very poor for us so far, imo. His shooting and passing in the final third has been abysmal at times, especially yesterday, and he gives the ball away too much. He needs to be much, much better, because at present, he looks more like a £6m player than a £60m one.

He plays well with Bruno for Brazil doesn't he? And Bruno has had no problem adapting to the Prem League. In fact, he's been brilliant this season.
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by Yabish »

I think it’s evident after yesterday that his best position for us would be next to rice in the 8 role instead of soucek, he was class. I just hope Moyes has the minerals to go for it. He’s great at breaking up play and then also initiating the play
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by MB »

Yabish wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:44 am I think it’s evident after yesterday that his best position for us would be next to rice in the 8 role instead of soucek, he was class. I just hope Moyes has the minerals to go for it. He’s great at breaking up play and then also initiating the play
In a high possession team it is. Would it work as well with how Moyes sets up? I have my doubts, but I guess that is kind of your point in terms of Moyes going for it more.

Stick the industry of Fornals in front of him and you start to see how it could take shape but I think Moyes is probably too worried about the defence to take Soucek out.
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by -DL- »

Not saying he's a bad player, as the lad clearly has talent.

However, for David Moyes West Ham United - well, I said what I think much earlier in the thread.
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by I am Legend »

We have really sucked the joy and confidence out of the lad. He still looks a bit off. Usually looks so calm for Brazil.

I agree, he should be in there next to Rice with Kehrer behind in DM.

Yes we're not such a high possession team like Brazil but that is partly because we don't play the right players or system. Rice, Paqueta, Kehrer in midfield will keep the ball and possession far better. But then it only works if you play Emerson LB and a new RB who is very comfortable with the ball.

I hope he enjoys the WC and gains back some confidence. f*** knows we'll need it.
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by MB »

-DL- wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:24 am However, for David Moyes West Ham United - well, I said what I think much earlier in the thread.
It is a lot of money to spend for him to play a role which Lanzini or Fornals could probably have done.

I hope you are wrong, but I also struggle to see how we get the best out of him in a Moyes set up. The worrying thing is I’d say the same about Scamacca, Kehrer and Emerson but that is probably for the other thread.
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by dasnutnock3 »

Rice & Pac as centre mids would be lovely to see. Soucek doesn't seem like an ideal link between midfield & Scamacca, perhaps Pac would be the more productive supplier?
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by steveyrockstar »

Bloody hell, I really hope a lot of you are wrong. Surely we haven't just spent £60m on a Brazilian superstar and indeed, £170million on players who can't function in a David Moyes side - or worse, potentially even adapt to English football?

I'm a huge fan of Moyes and what he's achieved, but even I'd say he couldn't recover from that :crossed: :eh:
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by Diogenes »

Yabish wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:44 am I think it’s evident after yesterday that his best position for us would be next to rice in the 8 role instead of soucek, he was class. I just hope Moyes has the minerals to go for it. He’s great at breaking up play and then also initiating the play
I'm not sure it's 'evident' that is his best position, but certainly I am pretty sure most of our supporters (and many on here) had/have no idea what sort of player we bought, and I believe that is the source of many negative reviews. He most definitely isn't a Neymar/Payet type who most thought (and still think) we purchased and if some continue to judge him on that then they will continue to be disappointed. From what I have seen so far, he reminds me of Alex Song, in his prime, and I would not be disappointed with that at all. We can only hope that Moyes and Newman are aware of the players talents and best position for us.
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by Rust »

I am Legend wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:25 am We have really sucked the joy and confidence out of the lad. He still looks a bit off. Usually looks so calm for Brazil.

I agree, he should be in there next to Rice with Kehrer behind in DM.

Yes we're not such a high possession team like Brazil but that is partly because we don't play the right players or system. Rice, Paqueta, Kehrer in midfield will keep the ball and possession far better. But then it only works if you play Emerson LB and a new RB who is very comfortable with the ball.

I hope he enjoys the WC and gains back some confidence. **** knows we'll need it.
Completely agree - I actually think Fornals could be great as a RB in that system.

Paqueta needs to be deeper with runners going in behind.
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by GetUrWangOut »

Rust wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:01 pm Completely agree - I actually think Fornals could be great as a RB in that system.

Paqueta needs to be deeper with runners going in behind.
Fornals at right back isn’t a bad shout at all
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by Albie Beck »

MB wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:43 am It is a lot of money to spend for him to play a role which Lanzini or Fornals could probably have done.
They couldn't have really - what he's been excelling at is interceptions and turnovers. Manu at the moment couldn't turn over a blanket.
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by Gaz »

To me he is cut out for a Frank Lampard type role, a midfielder who looks forwards but also not afraid to do the dirty work.

I thought in the England game how balanced our midfield looked with Rice & Bellingham, Rice looked comfortable (albeit against Iran), he didn't need Phillips or Henderson to baby sit him. Bellingham is similar to Paqueta in many ways. It showed the way forward.

Moyes and his coaches know much much more about the game than me, but surely if you play more defenders you will never dominate possession and you will always invite the oppo on to you? It's always been about the balance and we are way too passive at the moment.

I think the way forward is to have a centre mid duo of Rice and Paqueta and build around that.
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by MB »

Albie Beck wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:01 pm They couldn't have really - what he's been excelling at is interceptions and turnovers. Manu at the moment couldn't turn over a blanket.
His interceptions number is no different to Fornals or Lanzini when they played that role. He makes more tackles I’ll accept, but for whatever the down payment was I’d want a lot more than that.

How he is currently used he barely gets to “nice to have”

You could stick Fornals in that role and have £60m of fullbacks instead and I’d bet we’d look better.

I’m not saying he is a bad player, you can see he isn’t. I’m asking is he the right player for us? I’m really not sure. Ditto Scamacca and it worries me. Moyes has got to get more out of both after the World Cup.
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

but Shirley (rhetorical I know) the powers that be, Newman and Moyes and whomever else is involved, knew what they were getting. what their best positions are. how best to utilise them.

so somewhere along the line, either we bought two players completely unsuitable for how we play, OR someone who recruited them wants shooting.

I'm like loads on here, left scratching my head as to which of the two reasons is the correct one.
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by dasnutnock3 »

Closer to Riquelme than Lampard Jr IMO.
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by Ironing Board »

dasnutnock3 wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:28 pm Closer to Riquelme than Lampard Jr IMO.
Funnily enough, Moyes kept trying to sign Riquelme and it went so far as to be announced on Everton's website before being taken down. Everton's Guðjohnsen, if you like.
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Re: Lucas Paquetá - Our Brazilian Magnifico

Post by Gsbgsb »

First it is clear Paqueta is not a traditional 10. Second he has real quality to bring out the best in those around him but they need to have both pace and an eye to attack.

Paqueta was fine for Brazil because Casemiro is one of the best holding midfielders on the planet. So is Rice, difference is that Casemiro likes playing that way but Rice wants to do more when he plays for us.

Once we convince Rice that his forays across the half way line are to be limited and it is his primary job to block any gaps centrally then Paqueta can play as he does for Brazil (indeed as Bellingham did for England).

For as long as we pander to Rice’s belief he is more of a Gerrard/Lampard clone than a Busquets/Rodri then we will see the best of neither player.
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