The Strikes Thread

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The Strikes Thread

Post by -DL- »

I thought it's about time we had a thread on this, instead of it being in other threads.

We're currently seeing a wave of strikes across many different industries, including train workers, bus workers, postal workers, telecoms workers and elsewhere.

It's been quite some time since I can recall so many different sectors taking industrial action - and for the most part, it seems the levels of public support are higher than they've ever been.

Of course, there are some dissenting voices out there, usually with the phrases 'Well I'm not getting a rise, why should they?' or 'If they don't like the pay and conditions, leave', but overall these seem to be in the minority.

What's changing, when public support appears on the face of it, to be increasing?

I appreciate we have the rule to link to a news story, but as there are so many sectors taking action at the moment, it seems a bit churlish to just post one - but we know - it's most definitely a current news story.
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by sendô »

When solicitors striked the other week some of their demands were a 25% increase on certain payments. They'd been offered ~15% iirc. I didn't see much in the press demonising them the way they normally do to "train drivers", nor did I see a lot of wailing and screeching that there'd be hoards of criminals not getting processed, and that they were being selfish.

I wonder why that is? :?
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by MB »

sendô wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:25 am When solicitors striked the other week some of their demands were a 25% increase on certain payments. They'd been offered ~15% iirc. I didn't see much in the press demonising them the way they normally do to "train drivers", nor did I see a lot of wailing and screeching that there'd be hoards of criminals not getting processed, and that they were being selfish.

I wonder why that is? :?
It was the criminal barristers out on strike mate and I think most of the coverage was positive as it is next to impossible to make a living in that field of work outside of the very few at the top. When you see stories of them paying out more in train fares than they earn from attending the hearing (they are self employed) then you can understand.

My mate was a criminal barrister and he recieved payment for a piece of work he'd done three years after he'd left the profession! That was a decade ago and it has got worse not better.

The profession basically only exists as a middle class hobby for those with partners who earn a lot.
Last edited by MB on Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by hammers92 »

-DL- wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:45 pm What's changing, when public support appears on the face of it, to be increasing?
A big question where I think there's a lot of answers but I'll give my view.

When Thatcher came to power and battered the unions, we moved from a state of collectivism to one of individualism, people taking their own responsibility for everything in their life and a sense that if you didn't get on and be successful it was your fault. Since 1979, we've lived in Thatcher's idealised world (and New Labour continued this), with the most restrictive trade union laws in Europe, demonisation of the working class organising themselves and, a very weak trade union presence in our country. I would also say that trade unions in the UK now are wholly different organisations to the ones from back then.

This continued up until Covid hit I believe. Everyone has suffered grief/loss/mental health issues/just generally struggled during this time which has re-focused minds on what it means to be together and not go it alone. I think that the economic after shocks of Covid has made people more aware that their wages have stagnated for years, they're earning less and in jobs with rubbish terms and conditions whilst treated like dirt. There is also an increasing awareness of "us vs them" which has been amplified by the actions of the Government during Covid and the obscene amounts of profit being made that doesn't get put back into the services we all rely on.

I think Covid has changed the game. The economy and our relationship with our employment needs to change/will change and that's where trade unions are coming back through increasing public support and awareness. For everything on Truss' plate right now, she would be wise to work with the trade unions and not pick a fight for the Daily Mail comments thread. There's a lot of good work that goes on behind the scenes with unions that the public don't hear about, and we have a wide range of knowledge from people who have worked in their respective industries that can make things better not just for the workforce, but also those who use the service.

We've lived the last 42 years in Thatcher's world, and I think what's coming up after Covid requires a new economic model.

Bit of an essay, but those are my thoughts :thup:
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by MB »

-DL- wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:45 pm
What's changing, when public support appears on the face of it, to be increasing?
I think Covid and the lockdowns helped flag up just how many people who we all depend on every day and what % of those earn (relatively) very little.

I think the wind is changing around how much is enough as well. I see people turning down promotions etc as they want a better work life balance. Once you start thinking like that, it is only a short hop to thinking about what you earn relative to what you do vs what someone else earns. Very early days on that one , but I'm definitely seeing it in the City.
Last edited by MB on Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by sendô »

MB wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:31 am I think the wind is chnaging around how much is enough as well. I see people turning down promotions etc as they want a better work life balance.
I'm in construction and it's incredibly difficult to get people to work late or weekends, with people regularly turning down double time.

Personally I believe the government et all are secretly happy at the cost of living crisis, as it'll force people to work harder and longer to make ends meet, and in their desperation accept a lot less than they might have a few months ago.
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by dave_l »

A few things I reckon. Previously most of the tube/rail staff out on strike were drivers. Often on good wages well above national average. Now it’s people doing all sorts of jobs across the railway on packages well, well below the pay levels of most drivers. Additionally, some of the RMT walk outs in previous years often looked (from the outside anyway) to be about issues that many would find spurious. The RMT’s PR before these recent strikes has also been truly horrendous. Mick Lynch actually presents his point pretty well in language that doesn’t immediately seem alien (at best) or downright aggravating to most people.

Would also agree with what MB and hammers have put above. People have definitely viewed things differently since Covid. That, and this government comes across as more tone deaf and clueless than ever. Opposition is strong to their actions even if there isn’t a push to depose them.
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by delbert »

-DL- wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:45 pm What's changing, when public support appears on the face of it, to be increasing?
I think the answers so far have largely nailed it, all I would add is that the number of people that can remember the utter shitshow in the 70's when unions were out of control are becoming less.
Not that I think for one minute we'd go back to those stupid days.......
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by mumbles87 »

dave_l wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:14 pm A few things I reckon. Previously most of the tube/rail staff out on strike were drivers. Often on good wages well above national average. Now it’s people doing all sorts of jobs across the railway on packages well, well below the pay levels of most drivers. Additionally, some of the RMT walk outs in previous years often looked (from the outside anyway) to be about issues that many would find spurious. The RMT’s PR before these recent strikes has also been truly horrendous. Mick Lynch actually presents his point pretty well in language that doesn’t immediately seem alien (at best) or downright aggravating to most people.

Would also agree with what MB and hammers have put above. People have definitely viewed things differently since Covid. That, and this government comes across as more tone deaf and clueless than ever. Opposition is strong to their actions even if there isn’t a push to depose them.
I think Mick and his team have read the room fantastically during this summer.

I have been very vocally anti rmt in the past. I was not a fan of their path and Actions post the death of Mr crow but this summer they have been very good and come across well.

I hope they continue in this vein and don't go too far again.
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by Tenbury »

Sorry to be drumming the same old theme, but while I agree with all the above points(not sure about the 70's 'unions out of control' stuff, but WTF) another huge game changer has been the decline power of the traditional press, and the (relative) more varied output on social media.
In the 70's Fleet St., as it was then, had an influence upon public opinions that today it could only dream of. It was also much cuter when it came to judging the public mood, many people (not least many Tory MPs)seem to cheerfully forget that were it not for the Falklands (a god forsaken place that 99 out of a hundred people had never heard of) Thatcher was finished after barely a year, the subsequent, media led, massive Thatcher love in sold millions of papers, and allowed the poison of Friedman's moneterist claptrap to ruin the lives of the overwhelming majority of us.
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by 'stone hammer »

sendô wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:33 am I'm in construction and it's incredibly difficult to get people to work late or weekends, with people regularly turning down double time.
Did that not used to be the case? Shows how terrible my company is too. They expect you to work weekends for standard day rate.

I'm certainly one of those people turning it down too. I understand the 'work hard now so you can relax later in life' mantra, but what's the point if you're one of the unlucky ones who don't make it to retirement?
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

^^^^^Look up 'Quiet Quitting'
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by sendô »

'stone hammer wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:37 pm Did that not used to be the case? Shows how terrible my company is too. They expect you to work weekends for standard day rate.

I'm certainly one of those people turning it down too. I understand the 'work hard now so you can relax later in life' mantra, but what's the point if you're one of the unlucky ones who don't make it to retirement?
Oh I absolutely do not blame people for not wanting to work weekends at all. I hope it will lead to more realistic programmes and contracts with clients that don't rely on working 24/7 when things aren't going completely smoothly.
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by bubbles1966 »

In a post covid world people have grown accustomed to hybrid working/WFH/multiple couriers pitching up daily with all their parcels and deliveries and so on.

Perhaps, many people and businesses are no longer impacted in the way that they once were by strikes? Therefore, there is less anger/animosity?

Agree completely with the comments about a change in attitude towards work/office and the labour market is so flush with jobs at this moment people can pick and choose to some extent.
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by 'stone hammer »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:39 pm ^^^^^Look up 'Quiet Quitting'
I hadn't heard the phrase. From what I can see quiet quitting is doing the job you were employed to do without any extras. I.e. staying late for no extra pay.

Which is exactly how I live my life. Is it detrimental to my career progression? In all probability, yes. I'm sure we've all worked at companies where people who are willing to put in the extra work receive preferential treatment/promotions over others.
-DL- wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:45 pm What's changing, when public support appears on the face of it, to be increasing?
I have a limited view of the working world having been in employment for less than a decade. Continuing on from what I've said above, an observation I can make from places I've worked is that being good at your job doesn't seem to be enough. Employees get little to no recognition of good work and loyalty; the only time they do is if the company has received good PR or feedback from the result of their work. I've found the phrase 'the reward for hard work is more work' unequivocally true.

Is this a change from the past? You'll have to tell me, but I'd guess not. More likely that increasing numbers of people have had enough.

A good example from a personal point of view: last year I was asked to run my company's most high profile job to date (certainly not a brag :D the job was a ballache). I'm paid by shift, with 10 hours being a maximum shift. The job required me to be on site for 11 hours. My employer refused to give me anything extra for it.
After a month, I asked to be taken off the job as I'd had enough of doing a **** job for nothing extra. In my mind, I'm doing a day's free work every 2 weeks. So they replaced me with an agency worker who cost them 60 quid a day more than me, and did a terrible job. And from experience, that's what most companies would do.
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by hammers92 »

Thought I’d put this here, RMT have suspended the September strikes.

The right decision, it can wait.
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by mumbles87 »

hammers92 wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:13 pm Thought I’d put this here, RMT have suspended the September strikes.

The right decision, it can wait.
Tssa and aslef also have said the same

Hope all unions follow.
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by simon hammer »

mumbles87 wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:01 pm Tssa and aslef also have said the same

Hope all unions follow.
I do believe the CWU have suspended all strike action as well.

Absolutely the correct decision.
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

'stone hammer wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:37 pm Did that not used to be the case? Shows how terrible my company is too. They expect you to work weekends for standard day rate.
I thought that this had become more of the 'norm' tbh.

Was surprised by sendo's post indicating x1.5, x2, etc., was standard back in the day (mid-late 80's), you'd easily get 100 hrs+ / week on bonus schemes, evenings, weekend works, etc. but this was late 80's - ' loads'a'money times' , seemed like even window cleaners were earning a decent wedge.

Then when the recession hit, you would be lucky to even get a job in the trades. Never seemed to pick up again in terms of wages apart from pre-2000. Back then I managed a couple of decent gigs due to the time pressures on getting these millennium projects ready in time.

Was the only time I remember the unions having any significant sway with wages going up to half-decent levels. But I can also remember that loads of jobs were going only to foreigners (Aussies, kiwis, etc. ) due to the very fact the 'employers' didn't want union interference.

'stone hammer wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:37 pm I'm certainly one of those people turning it down too. I understand the 'work hard now so you can relax later in life' mantra, but what's the point if you're one of the unlucky ones who don't make it to retirement?
The other thing that has changed is how people get paid, now there's IR35, so even if you do earn a decent weekly salary, you have most taken out of the pay packet in stoppages which make no sense (apprentices levy, employers NIC , etc. ), also means meaningless pensions schemes and worse is the leave stoppages - people have had to take some of these umbrella companies to court to get back money they paid into the schemes - bloody joke the lot of it.

It used to be (and this is from my experience, so very limited) that as a skilled trade, you'd be a member of a body like JIB, which meant that all your holidays. pensions, etc. were transferred across between companies when you moved across. It also meant that you'd be dealing with your employers' admin department - be that as a direct worker, or as an agency person. They'd be someone in that company who you could speak to - now its mostly umbrella companies taking their slice of your hard-earned. :swear:

Not sure if that still happens or not, but I saw many companies moving away from those schemes, most likely to enable the recruitment of non-JIB approved/semi-skilled workers..?
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Re: The Strikes Thread

Post by -DL- »

Our strike action on 16th and 20th has been postponed.
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