The Strikes Thread

[Prob]

That's far from convincing - it just reads as though the union are against modernisation, innovation and recognising that demand for what they do has dropped.

The country's skint - money spent on empty trains, tubes and buses is money down the drain at a time when so many other things are genuinely needed. Government should pull the subsidies.

Do you travel much?

The trains into London are rammed every day, at all times now as people travel and move at different times. The same can be said for the bus network. They may not be at 100% pre covid levels but they are close to 90%. Given capacity on public transport ran over 100% pre covid.

The unions have modernised and allowed the work place to modernises with it. But if lowing worker rights standards is called modernising we are in trouble. No wonder the Tories wanted us out of the EU as they want to reduce workers rights.

The country isn't skint. The biggest myth going is the Tories care about the working person. What we are seeing is the result of 12 years of politically driven austerity by a political party that has enriched its donors and openly taken dirty foreign money. All while normal people suffer.

[mumbles87]

That's far from convincing - it just reads as though the union are against modernisation, innovation and recognising that demand for what they do has dropped.

The country's skint - money spent on empty trains, tubes and buses is money down the drain at a time when so many other things are genuinely needed. Government should pull the subsidies.

What tube subsidies would this be? We are at 84% pre pandemic ridership I believe the figures are

[mumbles87]

Of course the union is against modernisation - indeed any form of change. Glad to see the tide is turning against the dinosaurs.

Please cut this rubbish out

The union isn't against it

The union are against signing a deal that would allow any change to just fly through unquestioned

Unions protect the public as well as members

[bubbles1966]

.... London are rammed every day, at all times now as people travel and move at different times. The same can be said for the bus network.

London is not the UK.

They may not be at 100% pre covid levels but they are close to 90%. Given capacity on public transport ran over 100% pre covid.

Passenger numbers are between 70% and 90%.

What we are seeing is the result of 12 years of politically driven austerity

2010 budget; £673 bn
2022 budget; £1.057 trillion

A 57% increase in spending. God alone knows how that's 'austerity' .

They are giving pensioners, the NHS and transport way more money than they were getting in 2010.

This isn't about a lack of govt spending - it's about the need to apply wholesale reform, modernisation, automation and innovation to the state sector.

[bubbles1966]

What tube subsidies would this be? We are at 84% pre pandemic ridership I believe the figures are

If the tube can pay for itself, fine.

Same with any other service than can self-fund.

Lots of them don't though.

[Plashet Grove Pete]

Please cut this rubbish out

The union isn't against it

The union are against signing a deal that would allow any change to just fly through unquestioned

Unions protect the public as well as members

Two weeks ago you wanted every station in the country manned from the first train to the last. The unions stand in the way of any modernisation.

There's no point arguing with you - as per the RMT you are utterly intransigent and convinced your point is right. There's people on here pointing out the need for wholesale change - you just say no.

Fair enough. Get on with it.

[mumbles87]

If the tube can pay for itself, fine.

Same with any other service than can self-fund.

Lots of them don't though.

The tube has self funded since bojo left the mayor role

He left us 1.5 billion in debt

Khan frooze fares. Got this to 0.5 billion debt before covid hit

The tube was very well run

Only got bailed out because of covid and the money "given" was all the missing grant money anyways. So money that had been there previously

It's gone now and tube can afford to run day to day it's just struggling to provide investment for projects

[mumbles87]

Two weeks ago you wanted every station in the country manned from the first train to the last. The unions stand in the way of any modernisation.

There's no point arguing with you - as per the RMT you are utterly intransigent and convinced your point is right. There's people on here pointing out the need for wholesale change - you just say no.

Fair enough. Get on with it.

All stations need staffing imo

But not ticket offices, I'd have one person on station who can sell tickets , assist customers and just provide a point of contact for emergency services

Multifunction staff

[Danny's Dyer Acting]

If the tube can pay for itself, fine.

Same with any other service than can self-fund.

Lots of them don't though.

How much is all of the travel facilitated by the rail network worth to the country? How much would it cost in other areas to replace all of those journeys on buses, cars and planes?

[-DL-]

Do you travel much?

The trains into London are rammed every day, at all times now as people travel and move at different times.

Not true. I still use the rattler for my frequent visits to hospital in London, and in the off peak, it's dead as a do-do. Can't even remember the last time I had to stand on The Underground.

The same can be said for the bus network. They may not be at 100% pre covid levels but they are close to 90%.

Neither is that. Operating companies are pulling out of London left, right, and centre because they can't make it pay, and Stagecoach have just taken over 3 depots after buying out the ones that want out for well below market rate.

Meanwhile, outside of London, ridership is at less than 65% of pre-pandemic levels and companies have gone to the wall or pulled out of areas, and services have been massively reduced.

I've gone from taking between £250-£400 a duty in fares (cash and contactless) to barely scraping £100-£150. Can't remember the last time I had a standing load.

Yellow Bus in Bournemouth - gone to the wall. City Red Southampton will cease to exists as First Bus are pulling out as they have also done in Manchester and other areas. Arriva in Guildford - closed pulled out. Arriva Mid Kent - closed. Stagecoach in East Kent - services slashed, routes withdrawn and frequencies reduced, and the same is happening all around the country. My depot has reduced services and withdrawn routes. Dozens of independent operators have gone out of business.

At least have a modicum of knowledge about an industry before you start painting things as rosy, because in the bus industry at the moment, it's anything but, and what I've cited is the tip of the iceberg. There will be more to come now government support has been pulled, along with councils also sacking off subsidised services.

The ironic thing is of course, is with an aging population plus more and more people being entitled to a disabled bus pass, the cost of those is eating in to councils transport budgets so the money isn't there to subsidise the non-commercial services.

[mumbles87]

How much is all of the travel facilitated by the rail network worth to the country? How much would it cost in other areas to replace all of those journeys on buses, cars and planes?

People miss the point of PUBLIC transport

Especially during this climate change situation

You need it available and running even at a loss so people can use it ....

It should be run for people not for profit

[bubbles1966]

How much is all of the travel facilitated by the rail network worth to the country?

We've spent two years working from home, and money that don't get spent on transport costs gets spent elsewhere, on something different or at a different time.

The world has moved on - you can see someone on your phone or on your computer without needing to get on trains etc.

It's perfectly possible to rationalise and reschedule services to reflect actual demand. The idea that things should be running with vast numbers of 'empties' is a totally wasteful use of a finite pot of money.

[bubbles1966]

The ironic thing is of course, is with an aging population plus more and more people being entitled to a disabled bus pass, the cost of those is eating in to councils transport budgets so the money isn't there to subsidise the non-commercial services.

There was an article in one of the papers yesterday or the day before that claims pensioners disposable incomes will be higher than workers within two years. No idea how true that is.

[-DL-]

People miss the point of PUBLIC transport

Especially during this climate change situation

You need it available and running even at a loss so people can use it ....

It should be run for people not for profit

Remind me, how well did British rail do when it was nationalised? How well did the National Bus Company do when that was nationalised and created in 1969 through to 1986? Baring in mind there were governments from both sides of the house that run the whole lot down.

When you have people like Leon Daniels (I'm sure you know who he is) stating that transport has improved since privatisation, and that nationalisation of transport in the UK isn't an answer, it's worth sitting up and listening to him. Public transport needs to pay for itself as much as it can.

It also isn't much cop for the environment either when you have buses and trains running half empty and less. Ignore London, that's it's own exception and has absolutely no baring on the rest of the country.

[Danny's Dyer Acting]

We've spent two years working from home, and money that don't get spent on transport costs gets spent elsewhere, on something different or at a different time.

The world has moved on - you can see someone on your phone or on your computer without needing to get on trains etc.

It's perfectly possible to rationalise and reschedule services to reflect actual demand. The idea that things should be running with vast numbers of 'empties' is a totally wasteful use of a finite pot of money.

So the only way value is created is by people getting to work? What about them travelling to spend money?

[-DL-]

So the only way value is created is by people getting to work? What about them travelling to spend money?

Again DDA, you need to look beyond London here - people use their cars to travel and spend money for the most part. Away from the big smoke, services on public transport (buses, essentially, which is the most direct point to point) start running down from 1900 onwards. Even pre-pandemic, demand was minimal after 1900.

In cities like London, the demand is there - but out of London - it's dead. Add in of course, the fact that if there's more than one of you, it's cheaper to get an Uber - it's not just the pandemic that has caused ridership to drop - peoples behavioural habits of getting from point a to point b has also changed.

Most people going out to do something would rather pay to be picked up and dropped off at their front door with a mate via an Uber instead of standing in the cold and rain at a bus stop.

[mumbles87]

Remind me, how well did British rail do when it was nationalised? How well did the National Bus Company do when that was nationalised and created in 1969 through to 1986? Baring in mind there were governments from both sides of the house that run the whole lot down.

When you have people like Leon Daniels (I'm sure you know who he is) stating that transport has improved since privatisation, and that nationalisation of transport in the UK isn't an answer, it's worth sitting up and listening to him. Public transport needs to pay for itself as much as it can.

It also isn't much cop for the environment either when you have buses and trains running half empty and less. Ignore London, that's it's own exception and has absolutely no baring on the rest of the country.

The franchise system is flawed. Set fee to run then profits go to them (with tiny bit to state) and any loses covered by state

It should be set fee to run the service regardless and all profits to the state or put back into the network for improvements

[Danny's Dyer Acting]

Again DDA, you need to look beyond London here - people use their cars to travel and spend money for the most part. Away from the big smoke, services on public transport (buses, essentially, which is the most direct point to point) start running down from 1900 onwards. Even pre-pandemic, demand was minimal after 1900.

In cities like London, the demand is there - but out of London - it's dead. Add in of course, the fact that if there's more than one of you, it's cheaper to get an Uber - it's not just the pandemic that has caused ridership to drop - peoples behavioural habits of getting from point a to point b has also changed.

Most people going out to do something would rather pay to be picked up and dropped off at their front door with a mate via an Uber instead of standing in the cold and rain at a bus stop.

I am looking beyond London (not sure why we're conveniently ignoring a corner of the country where around 15% of the population live though). It's a simple question in response to the complaints about investing* in a well functioning public transport network though. What's the return on investment for the country in having the services connecting suburbs, towns, cities and regions that we do? Even further, what would be the return in investing more and making them better? I'm not really interested in anyone espousing an opinion about cutting more and more unless they have the information about how valuable the current investment is vs the alternative.

Another point...we wouldn't need to put as much public money into the service if the profits weren't being siphoned off elsewhere.


*Very interesting to me how subsidising the rail network is something we need to get rid of but subsidising private companies is the way to growth.

[bubbles1966]

So the only way value is created is by people getting to work? What about them travelling to spend money?

Just moves the money from one place to another and the travel cost in between cuts into the disposable spending amount.

[-DL-]

(not sure why we're conveniently ignoring a corner of the country where around 15% of the population live though)

Because it's very different and incomparable to anywhere else in the country, where the other 85% live...