jastons wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:53 pm
What about those who were not working 10 years ago but have had below inflation pay rises in the last few years?
10 years (or since the Tories came in really)seems to be the time frame most often used so I went with that.
New starters presumably knew the salary when they started. But sure it you have a number that answers my query for less than 10 years that's great
MD_HM wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:01 pm
That could be a very different answer for 1, 5 or 9 years working to be honest.
Teachers and most of the other professions mentioned haven't become low paid overnight.
There will be people striking that have taken that career path whilst knowing the salary and current climate/prospects.
As others have mentioned, it's those that chose a career years ago that have more to be aggrieved about
And becoming a teacher takes how many years? Many pick their paths years in advance
My wife wanted to be a teacher right up until teacher training when she saw first hand how little about the kids it has become all targets so became a TA as it's all about the kids. Her new school she been at 1 month they already asking her to do her teaching training but she isn't interested
That's the world we have become. Where teachers are too overworked and target driven to want to become one
We spent £38bn on a track and trace system that didn’t work, £15bn written off in Covid fraud and £2bn given to the DUP to keep May in power. The money is there.
Our public services are now broken, and no longer working. They’re the fabric of the society we live in, and need to be working efficiently.
You mentioned pensions. I would take away the state pension for high earners (won’t give you an exact figure as naturally that’s for another thread). I would also completely reform the tax system and introduce statutory conditions to explain what taxes go on and how they’re spent.
Going back to strikes, I would use some of that money to increase starting salaries in various professions and target young people, encouraging them to join.
We cannot go on doing more for less. It costs more to society when our public services fail us.
Well keeping on topic. Strikes yesterday were very successful as it angered the daily hail, who claim kids education is suffering because of it (whilst true) but fine to have more time off for the kings coronation is all fine ...
Well done to all the teachers and others out yesterday.. made a real stand against this corrupt government
It never fails that when a strike happens for over worked, under paid public sector workers who are merely asking for their terms and conditions to be honoured, and for pay rises in line with inflation to be given, that many other working class people will go out of their way to vilify them and find every excuse not to give them what they are rightfully entitled to.
There's a constant problem getting people to do so many low paid jobs from teacher to nurse to bus driver to bin man to train operations, because the wages are crap, the hours are crap, the terms are crap and quite often those people have to deal with the general public who are, quite frankly, often crap too.
Yet the money is there if the will is there. The government has no problem finding billions when they need to line their donor chum's pockets under the guise of a world beating test and trace system. They simply stick it on the national debt, which will forever earn dividends for the rich at the expense of the tax paying poor.
The question we all need to be asking is why - why does this government not consider it important to properly fund the education of working class people? What do they see the next generation doing for jobs in 20 years time? Packing boxes in an amazon warehouse or working in the gig economy no doubt. Why bother paying to educate those people beyond a basic level?
People see public sector workers as lucky because they are "protected" or "jobs for life" so it's almost like they want them to be on the same rubbish conditions as them
Why? Why have we accepted the rubbish hand being dealt by those above whilst they get richer
Take the railways. Payrise pulled by the gov but profits paid to the operators
The gov has covered all the operators loses during the strikes so they don't lose a penny
So the money is there
The cost of a decent payrise has not been met in strike action cost to the gov .. they just don't want the working class getting a fair slice of the pie.
I'm not normally a supporter of strikes as I believe they rarely achieve anything, but I think these ones are slightly different. It may be because I have a vested interest.
My wife is an HLTA that also part of the SEN team at her school, as well as being the current onsite first aider.
She is the top of her pay scale through years worked and has had minimal pay rises for as long as we can remember. In fact her salary has increased by less than £5k in the last 14 years, most of which was scale increases. She has been offered a 5% rise this year, which while can't be sniffed at is 50% of inflation. Her work load is bigger than ever with more & more pressure, and covering more classes where the school is down on teachers.
As far as I am concerned a minimum 10% pay rise for all teaching staff (including LTA's) is a must.
mumbles87 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:09 am
Sendo, hats off to every single point you make
People see public sector workers as lucky because they are "protected" or "jobs for life" so it's almost like they want them to be on the same rubbish conditions as them
Why? Why have we accepted the rubbish hand being dealt by those above whilst they get richer
The cost of a decent payrise has not been met in strike action cost to the gov .. they just don't want the working class getting a fair slice of the pie.
This is a strange phenomenon peculiar to us British (or perhaps certain parts of Europe). When some people see those who are better off than themselves then instead of the more natural wishing to be in the same situation, they would rather the better off was dragged down to their level and be as hard up as they are. If you do well for yourself in other countries and return back to your roots with a decent motor others will congratulate you and admire your car, over here they're more likely to make snide comments and vandalise it, it's a sickness born of envy and spite and it can't be healthy. I wonder if it's tied to centuries of unobtainable wealth tied to class divide?
They probably don't want things to spiral out of control fuelling further inflation......
sendô wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:03 am
The question we all need to be asking is why - why does this government not consider it important to properly fund the education of working class people? What do they see the next generation doing for jobs in 20 years time? Packing boxes in an amazon warehouse or working in the gig economy no doubt. Why bother paying to educate those people beyond a basic level?
Because they simply don't understand what it is to be one. They've never lived like we've lived, never worked with their hands, never done hard manual labour, never had to struggle, never had to scrimp and save and never had a bailiff knocking on their door. When you look at the Tory front bench, can you honestly tell me any of them who really know what it's like to be poor.
Many are public school educated which gives them a certain arrogance and a thick skin which they carry all throughout their lives. They've all been conditioned and driven to be a politician - probably the worst kind of person to be one. As the old saying goes, anybody who's ambition it is to be a politician should immediately be barred from being one.
The world and its mother go to university these days, so there doesn't appear to be any substance to the argument that the 'working class' aren't getting an education.
Not sure it has anything much to do with strikes though, nor the problems with public sector productivity.
If the public sector improved it's efficiency by 10%, inflation linked pay rises would be self funding. It's not the most challenging of ideas.
bubbles1966 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:27 pm
The world and its mother go to university these days, so there doesn't appear to be any substance to the argument that the 'working class' aren't getting an education.
Not sure it has anything much to do with strikes though, nor the problems with public sector productivity.
If the public sector improved it's efficiency by 10%, inflation linked pay rises would be self funding. It's not the most challenging of ideas.
mumbles87 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:29 pm
What has productivity got to do with striking.
It has something to do with getting a deal that doesn't punish the taxpayer - who is paying all the wages. Not Rishi Sunak. or the government. It's the private taxpayers who are paying.
bubbles1966 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:27 pm
If the public sector improved it's efficiency by 10%, inflation linked pay rises would be self funding. It's not the most challenging of ideas.
How do you measure the efficiency of a Nurse or a Teacher?
bubbles1966 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:31 pm
It has something to do with getting a deal that doesn't punish the taxpayer - who is paying all the wages. Not Rishi Sunak. or the government. It's the private taxpayers who are paying.
Amazing how production can reduce when a workforce is overworked eh.. maybe employ more rather than cut them all time
You always underestimate the VALUE of public services. Stop focusing on the cost.
