The Monarchy

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Morocco Mole
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Re: The Monarchy

Post by Morocco Mole »

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:47 pm The crown estate income went up every year barring the pandemic year. A clause where? They get 25% until 2027 then it drops back to 15%
Mainstream:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ng-squeeze

Less mainstream (but an interesting read):

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DrVenk
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Re: The Monarchy

Post by DrVenk »

Bend it like Repka wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:26 pm You can't have a president, our country is led by a Prime Minister and that is how we run things in our democracy. We are not set up like The US or France where the President has political control.
That makes no sense to me BILR. You've written that we can't because that's not what we have. But if you change the constitution then..the constitution changes and you can have one. The architecture of the state changes across time otherwise we'd all be stuck in feudal systems. You can re-write the rule book.

Which leads back to the original important question...
Bend it like Repka wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:26 pm As a genuine question, what would Republicans want?
A system of government that our political culture is not suited to, I would argue. I am only a supporter of a constitutional monarchy because we would make a complete pigs breakfast of a Presidential system. I like that our leaders emerge out of the party system. It's a half-decent check on those that filter through to the top.

The problem is at the moment, the party system is f*cked and has been for a while. Really, really poor representation of a broad array of interests in parliament which is an extension of a ridiculous voting system. We have the nation's political leader emerging out of a two-party system when the two-parties have lost their broad appeal. So that 'check' on what cream rises to the top is no longer a decent check on who should be our nation's political leader, especially if the two parties start to polarise (Corbyn vs Johnson was a low point for political choice if you ask me).

So, I would remain loyal to a parliamentary system so long as they sort out that bloody electoral system. Our political culture is not one for putting individuals on a pedestal and raising political leaders to near god like status as they do in Presidential systems. That's just not cricket. But then at the same time we have to recognise that we no longer have a political culture based around two party's with widespread support. I think we are in desperate need of PR and a move away from adversarial politics.

As for the Monarchy in all of this - scaled down, less bloated, and hopefully continuing the political neutrality and stoicism shown by Queen Elizabeth II.
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Tenbury
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Re: The Monarchy

Post by Tenbury »

Accept all your analysis, but the polarisation of the 2 parties, and their inability to properly represent large sections of society is (IMO) a function of a society where power is achieved more by privilege than merit.....
.. and what institution is the epitome of that?
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delbert
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Re: The Monarchy

Post by delbert »

Tenbury wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:55 pm Accept all your analysis, but the polarisation of the 2 parties, and their inability to properly represent large sections of society is (IMO) a function of a society where power is achieved more by privilege than merit.....
.. and what institution is the epitome of that?
Communism........ :winker:
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Albie Beck
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Re: The Monarchy

Post by Albie Beck »

Tenbury wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:55 pm .. and what institution is the epitome of that?
The BBC
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bonzosbeard
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Re: The Monarchy

Post by bonzosbeard »

I'm a royalist but don't mind people picking apart the financials of it all.

You do have to remember though that the money Brought in by royals In business could be arguably high. I heard deals done on Britannia yacht were in the billions. I mean who wouldn't sign?

I'm being a bit facetious but just giving another view.
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old fart
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Re: The Monarchy

Post by old fart »

StevePottsGoalsReel wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:36 pm Yeah, I've been to Paris a few times and the locals are always complaining about the lack of tourists because they don't have a royal family.
But they get to eat cake
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RichieRiv
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Re: The Monarchy

Post by RichieRiv »

This comment was removed by a moderator because it failed to abide by our community standards. For more details, please refer to the Forum Terms of Use. Replies may also be deleted.
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Tenbury
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Re: The Monarchy

Post by Tenbury »

I don't see what justification you have for making that comment. The thread is entitled `The Monarchy', is that such an unusual thing to discuss when there's a change of monarch?
A few people seem less than keen on the institution,, mostly, however, they seem to have gone out of their way to avoid showing any disrespect for the late queen whom so many people (both pro and anti monarchy) held in such high esteem.
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sendô
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Re: The Monarchy

Post by sendô »

What, because not everyone is fauning over the Monarchy?

Is the whole point of NUMB not to be able to debate the news of the day?
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szola
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Re: The Monarchy

Post by szola »

Tenbury wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:55 pm Accept all your analysis, but the polarisation of the 2 parties, and their inability to properly represent large sections of society is (IMO) a function of a society where power is achieved more by privilege than merit.....
To be honest, the British election rules place a clear emphasis on governing, and not representation. That is the essence of the first-past-the-post system. The Continental system with proportional representation has an emphasis on representation over governing and leads to coalition-building.

The British system, in effect, is a Presidental system in disguise, as the ruling party will most likely also have a majority in Parliament, and the Party leader be much stronger than a leader of a coalition of parties.

The lack of voter turn out has done nothing good, that is something most should worry about.

The Constitutional monarchy in itself isn't that different to the Presidental functions of parlamentary democracies, with the difference of the royals families playing a bigger role in public life. If they play their role well, they are more popular than a parlamentary elected President. So a win-win for most.

Sticking someone into a role, for life, because of their parents occupation can be seen a bit...medival?
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SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: The Monarchy

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Morocco Mole wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:59 pm Mainstream
Thanks for the clause info, that is a pretty crappy deal.

The other link seems to get some stuff right and some wrong, its clearly written with its agenda in mind though so fair enough. The grant isn't paid from the crown estate, that is correct - although its a bit like saying your hip operation isn't paid from your specific taxes, they are however linked by the agreement. If the crown estate vanished the agreement would also vanish so the grant wouldn't continue.
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alf git
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Re: The Monarchy

Post by alf git »

I've seen worse threads up this end of the forum 😁
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Sead Hakšabanović
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Re: HM Queen Elizabeth II 21st April 1926 - 8th September 2022 RIP

Post by Sead Hakšabanović »

Surprised to read how so many Hammers like being subjects rather than citizens
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Re: HM Queen Elizabeth II 21st April 1926 - 8th September 2022 RIP

Post by -DL- »

Sead Hakšabanović wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:07 am Surprised to read how so many Hammers like being subjects rather than citizens
If that's the case, I'm surprised that you don't know the connection of East Enders with The Monarchy, considering you're a supporter of a traditionally East End club.
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Hummer_I_mean_Hammer
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Re: HM Queen Elizabeth II 21st April 1926 - 8th September 2022 RIP

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

Sead Hakšabanović wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:07 am Surprised to read how so many Hammers like being subjects rather than citizens
What does that even mean?

You looking over the pond to our American cousins, or over to Europe for your baseline?

Serious question.
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Sead Hakšabanović
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Re: The Monarchy

Post by Sead Hakšabanović »

It's hardly a strong link is it.

To quote Tony Benn `The existence of a hereditary monarchy helps to prop up all the privilege and patronage that corrupts our society.'

They are parasites and the fact so many thousands support them and allow them to live a life of luxury and privilege at our expense makes us look ridiculous.
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Hummer_I_mean_Hammer
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Re: The Monarchy

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

Sead Hakšabanović wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:15 am It's hardly a strong link is it.

To quote Tony Benn `The existence of a hereditary monarchy helps to prop up all the privilege and patronage that corrupts our society.'

They are parasites and the fact so many thousands support them and allow them to live a life of luxury and privilege at our expense makes us look ridiculous.
So answer the question. What would you rather?
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Sead Hakšabanović
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Re: The Monarchy

Post by Sead Hakšabanović »

We don't have to copy another country. Are you aware of self-determination?

We'd be a better, fairer, more progressive country without these corrupt parasites.

Abolish the monarchy, reform the HoL, and that's a huge step. We don't need a President. A Prime Minister is sufficient.

And please don't start with the tourism argument. That's bs and we all know it.
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Re: The Monarchy

Post by -DL- »

Sead Hakšabanović wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:15 am It's hardly a strong link is it.
That depends on whether you decide you're going to use names like 'parasites' to describe them, when it's blatantly obvious that matter what is said to you, you'll never get it, and hold your own misconceptions of the relationship between East Enders and The Monarchy.

Your mind is clearly made up, closed, and not open for debate, so I'll leave you to your bile words like 'parasites' and bide you a good day.
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