⚽ West Ham Utd 2-0 AFC Bournemouth (24/10/22)
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
I think we did have a fair go, what was lacking was the final ball. Quite often, Cresswell was on the overlap and had the chance to cross, often Benrahma had the ball in the inside left position with runners ahead of him, quite often Rice and Downes had the ball in promising positions with runners going right and left, and quite often Johnson had the ball on the right hand-side with the time to cross the ball.
For whetever reason, on very few of those occasions were we able to create a decent chance. That could because Bournemouth defended really well, but my view is that our confidence is low and too often players either made the wrong choice, or their final ball was lacking.
Benrhama played well, but at the same time, he had the ball over and over again on the left hand side (particularly in the second half), and can't really remember him wither testing the keeper with a shot or creating a decent chance for another player. That's the story of last night. Lots of posession, pretty solid, poor in the final third.
For whetever reason, on very few of those occasions were we able to create a decent chance. That could because Bournemouth defended really well, but my view is that our confidence is low and too often players either made the wrong choice, or their final ball was lacking.
Benrhama played well, but at the same time, he had the ball over and over again on the left hand side (particularly in the second half), and can't really remember him wither testing the keeper with a shot or creating a decent chance for another player. That's the story of last night. Lots of posession, pretty solid, poor in the final third.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
No one said or even implied that you didCrouchend_Hammer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 1:59 pm I have never once said we did not create more than Bournemouth
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Do i think we can play 'better' (what I personally think is 'better' might be different to others), more attacking, more progressive, more possession based, more dynamic and less cautious and pragmatic football? Yes, i do
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
I don't think I have been short changed by West Ham since the beginning of 2021/22 in terms of what we have achieved in our results or progress in european compeition. I have never said that, and don't know why you would think that i feel short-changed. I could never feel short-changed by West Ham, whatever they did or didn't doUp the Junction wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 1:38 pm
If you believe you've been short-changed by West Ham since the beginning of the 2021/22 season, then your demands are entirely unreasonable and fail to take into account the reality of the club's position.
Do i think we can play 'better' (what I personally think is 'better' might be different to others), more attacking, more progressive, more possession based, more dynamic and less cautious and pragmatic football? Yes, i do
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
Make you 100% right on the constant source of frustration thing, but i think that's football in general. Everyone knows the answers, but only one person can be the manager. Personally, i think Moyes has done an outstanding job.
Last nights was a game we'd have lost 3 seasons back .... just think of it
Live on Sky
Against a lower premier club
Raining
Monday
Stadium announcer acknowledging that that we're on a 5 in a row Monday night winning streak
We really needed a win
makeshift defence
All Bournemouth needed was a striker on a 2 year goal drought and they could've pulled it off
That said, stand by my thought on Tomas, i really rate the guy but he looks a shadow of the player that many thought of as a HOTY contender since his arrival
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
The same reason Mark Noble was allowed to get by being a bang average footballer yet held up on a pedestal like some sort of footballing god all because he came from Canning Town!!BobbyMooreLower wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 1:30 pm I am 100% sure that if Tomas Soucek's name was Tommy Smith from Essex & Flynn Downes was called Flynov Downev from Eastern Europe then people would not be calling for the former to be dropped for the latter.
Being a 'local lad' does absolute wonders to your reputations among certain fans.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
Well, the poster replied to my post with a sarcastic comment detailing the XG for both sides...
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
This was my impression as well and why the "what chances did we create" conversation is a bit of a red herring.Turns to Stone wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:00 pm I think we did have a fair go, what was lacking was the final ball. Quite often, Cresswell was on the overlap and had the chance to cross, often Benrahma had the ball in the inside left position with runners ahead of him, quite often Rice and Downes had the ball in promising positions with runners going right and left, and quite often Johnson had the ball on the right hand-side with the time to cross the ball.
For whetever reason, on very few of those occasions were we able to create a decent chance. That could because Bournemouth defended really well, but my view is that our confidence is low and too often players either made the wrong choice, or their final ball was lacking.
Benrhama played well, but at the same time, he had the ball over and over again on the left hand side (particularly in the second half), and can't really remember him wither testing the keeper with a shot or creating a decent chance for another player. That's the story of last night. Lots of posession, pretty solid, poor in the final third.
The plan was clearly to avoid trying to pick through the middle of the pitch where Bournemouth were denying any space and to create situations where we outnumbered them out wide. Generally it worked up to the point where a player had to make the right decision and execute well. Too many poor attempts to pick someone out, delayed passed, shots hit straight at a defender. The first two in particular were also heavily evident against Liverpool.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
I agree Biltho. Ashby has looked the business each time I have seen him.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
They're all Premier League teams, all very capable on their day.
10 points taken from the last possible 15 in the league. The only defeat coming against Liverpool away, due to a missed penalty, where WHU have won once since 1963, and the other points were dropped at St Mary's where the current league leaders also failed to win.
May I refer you to my comment above.
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that doesn't mean it is all that matters to all of the fans
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
for the manager and the players I am sure the result was all that mattered. And fair enough.Diogenes wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 1:44 pm And yet all the talk on this forum, pre match, was about it being a 'must win', 'pivotal', 'season defining' etc. let alone Moyes being just 2 games from the chop. For the club and Moyes the result WAS all that mattered. Of course I would like to see us playing like Brazil every game, but Im a realistic West Ham old timer moving away from that relegation zone has to be the priority. Ask all the sacked Managers this year whether Artistic Merit or points on the board is important.
that doesn't mean it is all that matters to all of the fans
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
Yep, no one said or implied that you said that "we did not create more than Bournemouth"Crouchend_Hammer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:08 pm Well, the poster replied to my post with a sarcastic comment detailing the XG for both sides...
Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
They never had less than nine players in their penalty area when we were attacking, and even when they had the ball they didn't commit many beyond the player with the ball. They parked the bus at the kick off whistle and it stayed parked for 94 mins. Their defenders got in block after block after desperate block, only when the guy handballed it on 90mins did we get the break of the block in our favour, even our other goal game from a corner in which the ball had gone through two phases of play, Bournemouth really rode their luck, in other games the ball ricochets off the block to a west Ham player, or goes in the net after skimming off a defender and wrong footing the goalie. Last night neither of those things happened, the second ball after the block fell favourably to Bournemouth as they had the numbers back.Turns to Stone wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:00 pm I think we did have a fair go, what was lacking was the final ball. Quite often, Cresswell was on the overlap and had the chance to cross, often Benrahma had the ball in the inside left position with runners ahead of him, quite often Rice and Downes had the ball in promising positions with runners going right and left, and quite often Johnson had the ball on the right hand-side with the time to cross the ball.
For whetever reason, on very few of those occasions were we able to create a decent chance. That could because Bournemouth defended really well, but my view is that our confidence is low and too often players either made the wrong choice, or their final ball was lacking.
Benrhama played well, but at the same time, he had the ball over and over again on the left hand side (particularly in the second half), and can't really remember him wither testing the keeper with a shot or creating a decent chance for another player. That's the story of last night. Lots of posession, pretty solid, poor in the final third.
It was a rehearsed tactic, don't give West Ham any space within the penalty box lines, they can have it deep and out wide, we'll defend the first ball for our lives in the box and see where that takes us.
Last edited by Estuary on Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
Back in the day we would have lost this game and would have been far more stuck in a relegation fight.
Now, we have a larger and better balanced squad, so could still challenge and win the game. It wasn’t attractive, players seem to be lacking in confidence at times (maybe the bigger squad is creating a perceived threat to places in the team?) and we appear to lose our mojo at times.
If we can win with these constraints against a side who clearly were set up to nick a win against the run of play, then things will come good. The win will bolster the confidence, 10/15 points in the last 5 games, players will get used to each other and in some cases get used to the PL.
As I say, it wasn’t pretty but we stuck in and got the result.
Now, we have a larger and better balanced squad, so could still challenge and win the game. It wasn’t attractive, players seem to be lacking in confidence at times (maybe the bigger squad is creating a perceived threat to places in the team?) and we appear to lose our mojo at times.
If we can win with these constraints against a side who clearly were set up to nick a win against the run of play, then things will come good. The win will bolster the confidence, 10/15 points in the last 5 games, players will get used to each other and in some cases get used to the PL.
As I say, it wasn’t pretty but we stuck in and got the result.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
Pete on the Moyes thread posted something which to me, sums up the entire discussion perfectly...
"It's Cavaliers v Roundheads. I guess we all learn towards one or the other. I value hard work, discipline, good organisation. Others place more priority on skill and flair.
Moyes seems to me to be pretty Roundhead, and the players he trusts probably are too"
I don't think those who really rate Moyes and are more accepting of his pragmatic style are wrong - it is just a different opinion to mine
"It's Cavaliers v Roundheads. I guess we all learn towards one or the other. I value hard work, discipline, good organisation. Others place more priority on skill and flair.
Moyes seems to me to be pretty Roundhead, and the players he trusts probably are too"
I don't think those who really rate Moyes and are more accepting of his pragmatic style are wrong - it is just a different opinion to mine
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
I do miss our swashbuckling counter attacks, breaking away at pace, in a Mighty Ducks style flying 'V'.. there were times last night that I thought we might burst into life in that regard, but for one reason or another the ball just wasn't sticking.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
You said we barely created any chances and then disagreed with all attempts to try to highlight those chances.Crouchend_Hammer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:08 pm Well, the poster replied to my post with a sarcastic comment detailing the XG for both sides...
So I provided an objective metric that accumulates chances for both sides, which suggests we did actually create a pretty good amount of decent chances (as well as restricting Bournemouth to very few) and that our 2-0 win was justified.
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But when you are playing against a team who will park the bus the best way to create chances is to make sure you have more attacking players on the pitch who have the tools to unlock them, and play in a way to achieve that - not play three defensive orientated midfielders (one who who can't pass water) or two full backs who are not the most comfortable on the ball, or have your wide forwards hug the touchline - and then have 90% of your attacking play getting the ball wide and crossing
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
All trueEstuary wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:13 pm They never had less than nine players in their penalty area when we were attacking, and even when they had the ball they didn't commit many beyond the player with the ball. They parked the bus at the kick off whistle and it stayed parked for 94 mins. Their defenders got in block after block after desperate block, only when the guy handballed it on 90mins did we get the break of the block in our favour, even our other goal game from a corner in which the ball had gone through two phases of play, Bournemouth really rode their luck, in other games the ball ricochets off the block to a west Ham player, or goes in the net after skimming off a defender and wrong footing the goalie. Last night neither of those things happened, the second ball after the block fell favourably to Bournemouth as they had the numbers back.
It was a rehearsed tactic, don't give West Ham any space within the penalty box lines, they can have it deep and out wide, we'll defend the first ball for our lives in the box and see where that takes us.
But when you are playing against a team who will park the bus the best way to create chances is to make sure you have more attacking players on the pitch who have the tools to unlock them, and play in a way to achieve that - not play three defensive orientated midfielders (one who who can't pass water) or two full backs who are not the most comfortable on the ball, or have your wide forwards hug the touchline - and then have 90% of your attacking play getting the ball wide and crossing
Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
It's rubbish, those two things are not mutually exclusive, nor is Moyes a purely pragmatic coach.Crouchend_Hammer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:16 pm Pete on the Moyes thread posted something which to me, sums up the entire discussion perfectly...
"It's Cavaliers v Roundheads. I guess we all learn towards one or the other. I value hard work, discipline, good organisation. Others place more priority on skill and flair.
Moyes seems to me to be pretty Roundhead, and the players he trusts probably are too"
I don't think those who really rate Moyes and are more accepting of his pragmatic style are wrong - it is just a different opinion to mine
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United vs AFC Bournemouth: match thread
I'm pretty sure about 0.8 of that xG is down to the penaltyThe Boys from the Boleyn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:21 pm You said we barely created any chances and then disagreed with all attempts to try to highlight those chances.
So I provided an objective metric that accumulates chances for both sides, which suggests we did actually create a pretty good amount of decent chances (as well as restricting Bournemouth to very few) and that our 2-0 win was justified.