⚽ West Ham Utd 2-0 AFC Bournemouth (24/10/22)

[the pink palermo]

All true
But when you are playing against a team who will park the bus the best way to create chances is to make sure you have more attacking players on the pitch who have the tools to unlock them, and play in a way to achieve that -

Like who Crouchy ? Seriously.

You make it sound as if he left prime David Silva on the bench.

[Up the Junction]

I don't think I have been short changed by West Ham since the beginning of 2021/22... I have never said that, and don't know why you would think that i feel short-changed.

Because in every match thread I've read this season you repeatedly accentuate the negatives. Rarely, if ever a good word to be said.

Like you said earlier: "West Ham just seriously get on my wick"

Back in the day we would have lost this game and would have been far more stuck in a relegation fight.

Pablo has it right.

These are good times to be a West Ham supporter, Crouchy. Some of the best I've even known. It saddens me that you (and others) are unable to enjoy it.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

You said we barely created any chances and then disagreed with all attempts to try to highlight those chances.

So I provided an objective metric that accumulates chances for both sides, which suggests we did actually create a pretty good amount of decent chances (as well as restricting Bournemouth to very few) and that our 2-0 win was justified.

FWIW i think XG is a load of baloney but...

The XG is made up of 0.76 for the penalty and 0.53 for the Zouma goal. The next best XG incident we have a score of 0.08, which was Flynn downes blocked shot

An XG below 0.1 is pretty low and we did not have any above 0.1 except the goals

(as an aside Bournemouth had one at 0.49 and one at 0.12)

I am not denying we didn't deserve to win, nor that we resticted Bournemout. but the XG analysis actually shows we didn't create many chances of note

[Crouchend_Hammer]

It's rubbish, those two things are not mutually exclusive, nor is Moyes a purely pragmatic coach.

they are not mutually exclusive, but we likely all 'lean' one way or the other, same as managers will

[Crouchend_Hammer]

Because in every match thread I've read this season you repeatedly accentuate the negatives. Rarely, if ever a good word to be said.

Like you said earlier: "West Ham just seriously get on my wick"

These are good times to be a West Ham supporter, Crouchy. Some of the best I've even known. It saddens me that you (and others) are unable to enjoy it.

I have plenty of good things to say about many of our players, and have spent a lot of time defending many of them (Arthur, Antonio, Benny to name but three)

The last two seasons have been very good, for sure. No question. and Moyes deserves all the plaudits he gets for that. he is a top bloke

That doesn't mean I particularly enjoy the style of football we play or his footballing philosophy - and matches last night just accentuate my confirmation bias

The reason i have been somewhat negative this season, is because on the whole, in my opinion, the way we have played is not my preference

[Estuary]

All true
But when you are playing against a team who will park the bus the best way to create chances is to make sure you have more attacking players on the pitch who have the tools to unlock them, and play in a way to achieve that - not play three defensive orientated midfielders (one who who can't pass water) or two full backs who are not the most comfortable on the ball, or have your wide forwards hug the touchline - and then have 90% of your attacking play getting the ball wide and crossing

You keep replying in a manner that suggests you think we failed tactically and performance wise last night, we didn't. We comfortably beat a team who came to defend and who would have bitten your hand off for a 0-0 before the match. They conceded two thirds of the pitch eary on and defended with ten men for their lives inside the eighteen yard lines so our options to attack were limited to getting wide or trying to get them to chase the ball as we played it across our back line, draw them out and exploit the space but they were not inclined to do. We won well in the end, Liverpool faced with Forest playing the same as Bournemouth did last night had Mo Salah ( to your personel point), amongst the best player in the world currently, and couldn't do what we did.

[JLCABA]

Another clean sheet with a makeshift defence. Two of our most expensive summer signings, totalling £80m in fees, both key to how Moyes wishes to play, absent once again.

The opposition were restricted to five shots and Lukasz Fabianski didn't have a save to make. We had 55+ per cent of possession, enjoyed 20 efforts on goal and scored twice. The result was never really in any doubt. WHU are in the Premier League's top ten for the first time this season, have picked up 10 points from the last 15 and are only four points adrift of our 7th-place target.

The question really should be, how you could not be?


If you believe you've been short-changed by West Ham since the beginning of the 2021/22 season, then your demands are entirely unreasonable and fail to take into account the reality of the club's position.

Pedant alert …….
Er cough boss …..
Three not two expensive signings out injured

[thamesideiron]

Think we can swap and change the team around a lot now...first 11 is very hard to pick,we all have slightly differing opinions,
Moyes must put a lot more thought into that now as well,thats with 2 DEF starters not available,always said to have a side that gets
anywhere close to CL spots,you have to have players on bench that should be starting,so the more disagreeing we do is actually good,
cos means just that...Ask 20 Man City fans their best Starting 11 you'll get 20 different answers.

Don't think team selection is the Major Problem...it's HOW we play...We don't shut down early/Press, call it what you will,we allow
opponents to much time on the ball,teams get confident even if just knocking the ball around the Halfway line,even last night we
allowed a very poor Bournemouth side Practically 50% possession,when lucks not on your side as it was last night,you come away
with a draw,in a game you should have P****ed with the players we have.

All the Leagues Top Sides Press,Scouse/City Especially give you absolutely no time on the ball,most other sides are adopting now as
well...The One thing that makes me query Moyes....you can put together a squad of cracking players,but you let the other side play
and settle,you wont get where you wanna.

Also IMO when you have 3 Central MFers,who are firstly defensively minded,i.e not Playmakers,the Front 3 with 2 playing
basically as wingers...theres nothing/no one in that 10 Role,the creative link up player,there's gaps between players,
we knock it around quite nicely in wide areas,but theres never or hardly ever a killer thru ball centrally,hopefully Paqueta
solves that,I'd have Played Lanza.....this won't go down well.. :lol: instead of Downes last night tbh.


At the moment,we're trying to improve,building a nice squad...trouble is so is everyone else,the standard of play from the
"Mid Table" sides is very high now,Brighton,Geordies,Fulham,Brentford,Palace all becoming hard to beat,you sit back and let
these side play,your destined for mid table.

Think last night just summed that up for me,played all right 6.5/10 tbh,but we should be brushing aside teams like Bournemouth.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

Like who Crouchy ? Seriously.

You make it sound as if he left prime David Silva on the bench.

No one knows how it would have panned out, as it is not all about the players on the pitch but also how they are asked to play and the tactics deployed. but i would not have played Soucek, and done either:

Lanzini in the middle
Benny in the middle and Fornals on the left

I would also have considered playing a more attacking right back in coufal

You could also argue taht playing Emerson at LB would make us more attacking and better able to transition but that would be harsh on Cresswell who has been solid this season

But, it is all rather moot, as Moyes is a manager who is pragmatic and so will always focus on keeping it tight as number 1 priority, reagerdless of the players on the ptich. There is nothing wrong with that, it is his perogative and plenty of other managers also prioritise that. Taht doesn't mean that we, as fans, have to agree with it

[Estuary]

they are not mutually exclusive, but we likely all 'lean' one way or the other, same as managers will

In your world maybe, but most don't lean more one or the other, I take each for what it is and set that in the wider context of influences.

Just for kicks, I think we lined up 4-2-3-1 with Downes in the middle of the 3.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

You keep replying in a manner that suggests you think we failed tactically and performance wise last night, we didn't. We comfortably beat a team who came to defend and who would have bitten your hand off for a 0-0 before the match. They conceded two thirds of the pitch eary on and defended with ten men for their lives inside the eighteen yard lines so our options to attack were limited to getting wide or trying to get them to chase the ball as we played it across our back line, draw them out and exploit the space but they were not inclined to do. We won well in the end, Liverpool faced with Forest playing the same as Bournemouth did last night had Mo Salah ( to your personel point), amongst the best player in the world currently, and couldn't do what we did.

We won. so therefore in terms of achieving that objective, the tactics deployed did not fail. I never said they had failed

Personally, i think we cuold have deployed alternative tactics to achieve the same outcome of three points whlst being a lot easier on the eye, but that is merely my opinion as a fan

If i don't wear my seatbelt when driving, but don't have a crash, that doesn't mean not wearing my seatbelt was the right thing to do

[Crouchend_Hammer]

In your world maybe, but most don't lean more one or the other, I take each for what it is and set that in the wider context of influences.

Yes most do. Behavioural science will tell us we do on almost every thing we think, and every decision we make - whether we believe it or not

[the pink palermo]

i would not have played Soucek,

In which case I would bet we would have picked up no more than a point last night.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

In which case I would bet we would have picked up no more than a point last night.

Obviously impossible to know for sure, however i do disagree on that

[Up the Junction]

The last two seasons have been very good, for sure. No question. and Moyes deserves all the plaudits he gets for that.

The reason i have been somewhat negative this season, is because on the whole, in my opinion, the way we have played is not my preference

I don't believe Moyes' modus operandi has drastically altered this season.

Have your expectations?

[EastleighHammer16]

If we had a squad full of journeymen that were average players you could completely understand playing the way we have been. But we have a squad of very good players, that we’ve spent a lot of money on. We could be playing more expansively, we have the players to do so. I think that’s probably why Crouchy and a few others (myself included) are a bit frustrated with the football we play.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

Sorry, i was not clear
The last two season have been excellent in terms of results and our achievements and the fact we have had some great occasions to enjoy. I would still say the style of football has not been my preferred style though, even if it did lead to unparalled success

However, i do believe we have regressed this season in terms of the style of play. There may well be legitimate and valid reasons for it, and other teams have 'worked us out' - but we seem to have become even more cautious and conservative. All my opinion of course

[Aztec Hammer]

A 15-20 minute period that we brought on ourselves that risked us bottling it, but a comfortable win really against a dreadful side.

Poor game of football. Three DM/CMs against them was overkill. I really feel we'd have torn them up in the first half with a more attacking team selection. Can't quite figure out what Downes was doing playing 10, can only assume it was some sort of decision related to his pressing.

Still profligate with the chances we do make. And we pass the ball backwards and choose the wrong option going away from the goal far too often. Johnson lays on a tap-in for Scamacca if he just composes himself and puts the ball across the goal mouth instead of pulling it back to nobody in particular. Just put it across the goal where our big striker can kick it in from three yards out.

Johnson and Soucek can't take care of or pass the ball at the required level. Really think they need to be bench options. But unfortunately Coufal isn't pulling up trees either. Kehrer will hopefully be the RB when Aguerd/Dawson is back. Johnson struggled all game and was lucky to not give away a penalty. Once or twice a game he stays composed and does something good with the ball, but the majority of the time he panics and turns away from the pitch. Soucek can't keep setting up the opposition with his passes. He rebounded with a good second half though.

Scamacca needed to release the ball sooner a couple of times, but his play is top class. We saw the difference when Antonio came on and nothing stuck. With Gianluca, it sticks, but also he is a natural to play off of.

Rice is a special player, but we already knew that. Highest single game pass completion percentage in our Prem history, with only one pass not making it to a teammate.

[Coops]

If we had a squad full of journeymen that were average players you could completely understand playing the way we have been. But we have a squad of very good players, that we’ve spent a lot of money on. We could be playing more expansively, we have the players to do so. I think that’s probably why Crouchy and a few others (myself included) are a bit frustrated with the football we play.

We also have injuries to several of these players including most of our defenders.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

Rice is a special player, but we already knew that. Highest single game pass completion percentage in our Prem history, with only one pass not making it to a teammate.

Rice was a class apart, as he is pretty much every week