The Sunak Government 2022-

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mumbles87
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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

Post by mumbles87 »

bonzosbeard wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:46 am This seems strange as doctors currently want a 35% pay increase as wages are too low.

Is it just young doctors that are low paid and don't see big money unless specialise?
It seems jnr drs are the much lower paid and it takes years to get to a level of say gp or specialist

But then you don't want to lose those people either
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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

30-37k straight out of uni. 50k+ after 2 years. In the top 10% of earners within 7 years of leaving uni. Generous pension contributions.

Needs some very nimble maths to get to 35%. It's a drop in take home pay (they want more money to pay the higher taxes we all pay to fund NHS salaries) and taken from the one year their maths work.
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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

Post by chelmsfordhammer91 »

I saw the headline, then saw the author, then closed it. :lol:
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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

chelmsfordhammer91 wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:22 pm I saw the headline, then saw the author, then closed it. :lol:
had to go back and see who the author was. :crylol: :crylol:
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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

Post by Prob »

Francoisvander or else wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:00 pm Can someone explain what a ‘Brexit Pubs Guarantee’ is when it’s at home?
Freezing duty on a draught alcoholic drinks served in pubs to keep the tax 11p lower than the duty in supermarkets. Trying to paint it that they couldn't do that while we was in the EU. But Wine and Spirit duty went up.

However we still have the highest alcohol duty in Europe by a good. It is 12% higher than Germany.
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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

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SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:17 am 30-37k straight out of uni. 50k+ after 2 years. In the top 10% of earners within 7 years of leaving uni. Generous pension contributions.

Needs some very nimble maths to get to 35%. It's a drop in take home pay (they want more money to pay the higher taxes we all pay to fund NHS salaries) and taken from the one year their maths work.
Image

Not quite the paradise you make out.

Considering how much they train, the debt they put themselves in, the hours they work and the responsibility they hold. Do you not think our hard working drs deserve more?
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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Thats pretty much exactly where I said.

I don't think they should get paid more to cover the tax rises to pay for the NHS.

I'd say 30k+ is a pretty decent wage for a 1st year trainee.

I don't think the hours and life and death decisions of the job come as a massive surprise to them do they? Did they not think the pay was ok when they started on this path?

As I said earlier I would give them a debt repayment window for at least the 1st couple of years. They are going to repay it anyway once they reach the higher pay years.
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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

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SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:03 pm Thats pretty much exactly where I said.

I don't think they should get paid more to cover the tax rises to pay for the NHS.

I'd say 30k+ is a pretty decent wage for a 1st year trainee.

I don't think the hours and life and death decisions of the job come as a massive surprise to them do they? Did they not think the pay was ok when they started on this path?

As I said earlier I would give them a debt repayment window for at least the 1st couple of years. They are going to repay it anyway once they reach the higher pay years.
No all your figures include the extras. Overtime and unsociable hours not the flat rate.

They deserve more
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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

Post by mumbles87 »

hammers92 wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 7:27 pm I’d imagine it’s more because they’ve had enough to be honest.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... on-changes

These are the examples of who we can't afford to lose
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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

mumbles87 wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:14 pm No all your figures include the extras. Overtime and unsociable hours not the flat rate.

They deserve more
Basic is 29k 1st year. 58k by year 5. Best part of 80 by year 8.

Unsociable hours, they are doctors ffs. What did they think the job was?
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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

Post by mumbles87 »

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:09 pm Basic is 29k 1st year. 58k by year 5. Best part of 80 by year 8.

Unsociable hours, they are doctors ffs. What did they think the job was?
They are drs? What kind of excuse is that to expect them to work long hours for not the biggest wages "well they signed up for it"

These people are litterally life savers and the back bone of society yet hey let's flog them .. who cares

The wage is far too low as starting and 58k for a Dr? That isn't that high a wage when compared to other sectors for someone of such high importance with the level of expertise

Nurses should start on 40k. Drs 50k.

As a minimum.
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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

Post by stu1 »

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:17 am 30-37k straight out of uni. 50k+ after 2 years. In the top 10% of earners within 7 years of leaving uni. Generous pension contributions.

Needs some very nimble maths to get to 35%. It's a drop in take home pay (they want more money to pay the higher taxes we all pay to fund NHS salaries) and taken from the one year their maths work.
My sister has been a doctor for around 5 years now and I would strongly warn anyone who wants to be a doctor about what they are getting themselves in for.

Horrendous hours, constantly changing shifts, little control over where you live and your commute until you are a consultant so almost 40. She moved to Manchester to be with her doctor husband and after 4 months had to move 100 miles away because of the rota for the deanery she was given, so has spent the last year living in the not so pleasant barrow in a shitty 1 bed flat.

It’s not just about pay though and this is what is missed, it’s how difficult everything in your life becomes. She often hasn’t been able to plan her life more than 3 months in advance, whether that’s holidays or going to friends weddings etc. I’m also pretty sure they aren’t on £50k after two year of uni, whilst when you break it down by hours worked, even £50k isn’t much. Then factor in all the membership fees and costs for exams which aren’t covered and it’s a pittance for what they do and the stress they are under.

Let’s be realistic, after all the training and studying required, along with all of the above, to be in the top 10% of (declared) earnings after 7 years is the least most of them deserve. I’ve got mates who spent 3 years learning to be a plumber or electrician or carpet fitter who take home more than junior doctors.

I wouldn’t say it to her, but my sister would have been far happier and had a far easier life, earning 2-4x as much money as she does now if she’d just gone to work in finance up the city.

Unfortunately for her she always dreamed of being a doctor, but it’s not all it’s cracked up to be. Many of her colleagues are leaving the nhs, some even to do lip fillers and beauty treatments, as they can earn just as much and have far more control over their lives with about 2% of the stress.

I would absolutely hate to be a doctor, from what I’ve seen it’s an horrendous slog up until you’re late 30s at best.

(I exclude GPs from all of the above).
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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

Post by RaddyKovac »

Stu, bang on.

To address your last point first, you have to already be an overworked more senior doctor before you get a cushy little GP gig anyway.

I was earning £45k at 19 years old working in the service dept of a premium car dealership.

When I was 22, I hit £85k p.a. in a tough but decidedly very rarely life-or-death job and have stuck there or thereabouts until last year (28) when my health issues hit out of the blue.

Once I'm fit and well I'll continue with the business I set up for myself, and will be clearing 6 figs. Much easier than being a hospital doctor (as someone who has spent about 5 weeks in hospital in 2023 and am starting to get to understand what the system looks like and how it works - and doesn't).

Not boasting obv, a) I've fallen from grace a little through sickness and b) I'd rather docs earnt more than smooth talkers like me, and happy for my tax thresholds to be different to those of healthcare workers, carers, nurses, pharmacists, doctors, teachers, (straight) police officers and the like.

I'd also like people in those professions to get the same expenses accounts, subsidised meals and services, and other benefits that out glorious MPs get. Doesn't Ms Dorries, for example, employee her daughter, present a dodgy chat show, and no longer bother to show up in the Commons having announced she's sodding off at the next election?

Maybe nurses should be able to pay their 6 year olds to produce art, rather than some of the 6-7 figure pieces featured in some of our NHS hospitals. Complete their timesheets, iron their tunics...
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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

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UK exports hit an all time high

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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

mumbles87 wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:24 pm They are drs? What kind of excuse is that to expect them to work long hours for not the biggest wages "well they signed up for it"

These people are litterally life savers and the back bone of society yet hey let's flog them .. who cares

The wage is far too low as starting and 58k for a Dr? That isn't that high a wage when compared to other sectors for someone of such high importance with the level of expertise

Nurses should start on 40k. Drs 50k.

As a minimum.
It's not an excuse it's that it can't exactly have come as a surprise that the job included unsociable hours.

Don't want to flog them fine. Let's all start behaving more responsibly. Don't turn up at a&e every time your kid bumps their knee, eat healthily, drink less, stop smoking, get yourself some health insurance if you want to do activities that carry higher risk of injury, dont drive like morons etc etc.

The trainees on 29k by definition took the job less than a year ago. You can argue the numbers but they signed up for it in full knowledge of the scales. In a few months their pay will rise well above inflation

A fully qualified doctor will start on £60k+ but sure put up the pay. What NHS services are you cutting to find the money or is this coming from raising taxes (reducing the take home pay of jr doctors - if we follow their argument).
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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

stu1 wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 11:22 pm My sister has been a doctor for around 5 years now and I would strongly warn anyone who wants to be a doctor about what they are getting themselves in for.

Horrendous hours, constantly changing shifts, little control over where you live and your commute until you are a consultant so almost 40. She moved to Manchester to be with her doctor husband and after 4 months had to move 100 miles away because of the rota for the deanery she was given, so has spent the last year living in the not so pleasant barrow in a shitty 1 bed flat.

It’s not just about pay though and this is what is missed, it’s how difficult everything in your life becomes. She often hasn’t been able to plan her life more than 3 months in advance, whether that’s holidays or going to friends weddings etc. I’m also pretty sure they aren’t on £50k after two year of uni, whilst when you break it down by hours worked, even £50k isn’t much. Then factor in all the membership fees and costs for exams which aren’t covered and it’s a pittance for what they do and the stress they are under.

Let’s be realistic, after all the training and studying required, along with all of the above, to be in the top 10% of (declared) earnings after 7 years is the least most of them deserve. I’ve got mates who spent 3 years learning to be a plumber or electrician or carpet fitter who take home more than junior doctors.

I wouldn’t say it to her, but my sister would have been far happier and had a far easier life, earning 2-4x as much money as she does now if she’d just gone to work in finance up the city.

Unfortunately for her she always dreamed of being a doctor, but it’s not all it’s cracked up to be. Many of her colleagues are leaving the nhs, some even to do lip fillers and beauty treatments, as they can earn just as much and have far more control over their lives with about 2% of the stress.

I would absolutely hate to be a doctor, from what I’ve seen it’s an horrendous slog up until you’re late 30s at best.

(I exclude GPs from all of the above).
If we doubled her pay overnight it wouldn't fix those problems though.
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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

Post by Monkeybubbles »

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:30 am If we doubled her pay overnight it wouldn't fix those problems though.
But it would make the problems more acceptable to potential new doctors.
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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

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Monkeybubbles wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:55 am But it would make the problems more acceptable to potential new doctors.
It's fine we should just all get private insurance and leave the free stuff for the poor

Whilst making it acceptable that our drs feel the need to do the cosmetic side like Botox etc as the NHS has been run into the ground and they aren't even well rewarded for their efforts

But nope it's fine ..

Thankfully we have drs like stus sister who still want to make a difference.
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Re: The Sunak Government 2022-

Post by -DL- »

I wonder how much the young junior doctor in Cardiff Heath Hospital that treated me is on? The one whom last Thursday when my incision that was less than a week old started to come apart in a small area at the bottom, decided it would be a good idea to remove all of the tape along the suture line, close the smaller bit that was coming apart with size one steri-strips instead of size six, and then leave the rest of the suture line with nothing on it, resulting in a massive section of the wound coming apart, leaving me with a gaping hole in my back, and an infection and an overnight stay in QVH in East Grinstead that no doubt has cost the NHS thousands on pounds to re-patch me up, and stick me on IV anti-biotics - and not to mention the scar I'm now going to be left with for life...
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