The Police

[Hammer1966]

There is almost some poetic justice that the people now being affected by the police with the protests are the same people that would be classist and sneer at football fans etc

How do you know any of that? Do football fans not give a **** about the environment? Are they all rabid monarchists? Do they not protest against Brexit or wars or any other issue that people want to protest about?

[Het-Field]

There is almost some poetic justice that the people now being affected by the police with the protests are the same people that would be classist and sneer at football fans etc when they complained about how we've been treated for years and years like criminals at times, still even these days etc forced to get tickets away from grounds

This isn't the first time I have seen a comparison between the treatment of protestors and football fans on NUMB, and I think it is downright sad that anybody would see it as comparable, and therefore some sort of solace in the face of the potential erosion of the right to protest. Taking Republic as an example, they ought not be lumped in with the 'direct action' types, and had been in consultation with the police.

The ability to peacefully protest is a key, cornerstone right, and vital in a democracy. This is massively different to the management of mass disruption and hooliganism that was once prevalent at football. Perhaps we should reserve the ire for those 'fans' whose actions in the 1970s through to the early noughties have foisted upon us the match experience that we have today? Or those who couldn't be trusted to travel to the continent for major tournaments without having to participate in the ceremonial 'throwing of the plastic chairs' to signal the start of a European Championships or World Cup.

There is no 'poetic justice' here. If this is the thin edge of the wedge on curbing the right of protest, this effects us all, and will effect people who will be here when we are long gone.

[Danny's Dyer Acting]

This was one of the best spontaneous displays of fan's power I've ever seen. Highly likely it'd be deemed illegal now.

[Danny's Dyer Acting]

Arrested for being in the vicinity of Just Stop Oil members (who weren't protesting at the time).

[WHU Independent]

re the above.

Bloody hell.

Being arrested because the police "think" you are going to plan a crime with the people next to you!

Thanks to the Tories, The Minority Report is now up, live and running.

[Samba]

'Wearing a fascinator in a threatening manner'..

Disgraceful action by the police, imo.

[bonzosbeard]

Football grounds would have been empty in 1985 as we would have all been nicked for thought crimes walking down Green St

[RichieRiv]

This isn't the first time I have seen a comparison between the treatment of protestors and football fans on NUMB, and I think it is downright sad that anybody would see it as comparable, and therefore some sort of solace in the face of the potential erosion of the right to protest. Taking Republic as an example, they ought not be lumped in with the 'direct action' types, and had been in consultation with the police.

The ability to peacefully protest is a key, cornerstone right, and vital in a democracy. This is massively different to the management of mass disruption and hooliganism that was once prevalent at football. Perhaps we should reserve the ire for those 'fans' whose actions in the 1970s through to the early noughties have foisted upon us the match experience that we have today? Or those who couldn't be trusted to travel to the continent for major tournaments without having to participate in the ceremonial 'throwing of the plastic chairs' to signal the start of a European Championships or World Cup.

There is no 'poetic justice' here. If this is the thin edge of the wedge on curbing the right of protest, this effects us all, and will effect people who will be here when we are long gone.

I can only imagine you have never experienced over zealous policing by West Midlands, South Yorkshire and Greater Manchester police. Perhaps you have never been kettled in the Earl Of Wakefield only having gone there for a few pre match pints with no interest in trouble.

What I find sad is you come onto a football site and proclaim that the treatment of fans is justified because fans cause trouble when flares and Fila tracksuit tops were in fashion.

Of course Just Stop Oil simply sit around singing we've got the whole world in our hands. No smashing up car show rooms, no launching tins of paint across shop windows and certainly not preventing the emergency services from getting to where they need to be.

You be careful you don't get a nose bleed up there on your high horse.

[old fart]

I can think of worse places to be kettled

[Het-Field]

I can only imagine you have never experienced over zealous policing by West Midlands, South Yorkshire and Greater Manchester police. Perhaps you have never been kettled in the Earl Of Wakefield only having gone there for a few pre match pints with no interest in trouble.

What I find sad is you come onto a football site and proclaim that the treatment of fans is justified because fans cause trouble when flares and Fila tracksuit tops were in fashion.

Of course Just Stop Oil simply sit around singing we've got the whole world in our hands. No smashing up car show rooms, no launching tins of paint across shop windows and certainly not preventing the emergency services from getting to where they need to be.

You be careful you don't get a nose bleed up there on your high horse.

I didn't justify it. I gave it as an explanation. The decisions to restrict and 'manage' fans was not about their attire. But about the behaviour of those in the past, who would seek out trouble, find it, and therefore create trouble. The hooligan culture is at least a (if not the) direct cause of the sanitised and over policed match day experience, which we dont get at any other sport. Its not sad. Its fact. And it is historical fact. It doesn't justify it, and I think football fans have broadly earned the majority of rights to enjoy sports in the way that fans of rugby etc can. But my ire for the status quo is directed at those who made it that way because they felt the football experience wasn't complete without a ruck, or property damage.

I have no truck for Just Stop Oil. If you've read my posts in the past, and before about XR, I dont agree with their tactics, and fundamentally, it will make people believe the environmental movement is annoying and alarmist, and could be counterproductive, when the battle for the environment is best fought at the ballot box. When arrests have been made of JSO protestors, often, I understand why they have been arrested. But that is independent to some of the things we witnessed last week at the coronation.

[sendô]

Arrested for being in the vicinity of Just Stop Oil members (who weren't protesting at the time).

That's a bloody outrage! I'm gonna take this all the way to the Prime Minister!

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

I didn't justify it. I gave it as an explanation. The decisions to restrict and 'manage' fans was not about their attire. But about the behaviour of those in the past, who would seek out trouble, find it, and therefore create trouble. The hooligan culture is at least a (if not the) direct cause of the sanitised and over policed match day experience, which we dont get at any other sport. Its not sad. Its fact. And it is historical fact. It doesn't justify it, and I think football fans have broadly earned the majority of rights to enjoy sports in the way that fans of rugby etc can. But my ire for the status quo is directed at those who made it that way because they felt the football experience wasn't complete without a ruck, or property damage.

Would you be OK with the above being applied to large groups of black youths?

[Het-Field]

Would you be OK with the above being applied to large groups of black youths?

I wouldn’t be okay with that, at all, GCRO.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

I wouldn’t be okay with that, at all, GCRO.

But OK with it when applied to football fans? What's the difference? A group targeted by the police because of who they are should never be OK for anyone.

[Het-Field]

What's the difference?

Football fans come from a wide range of demography. When the football day is done, everybody goes back to their respective ethnic, racial and religious background. That is why ‘football fans’ aren’t protected in equality legislation.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

Football fans come from a wide range of demography. When the football day is done, everybody goes back to their respective ethnic, racial and religious background. That is why ‘football fans’ aren’t protected in equality legislation.

That's not my point. You were intimating that the police were justified in targeting a specific group due to the actions of not all but some, basically agreeing with the principles of guilty until proven innocent and collective punishment. That's not on and is in theory illegal.

The police should never be justified in applying an arrest first, investigate later policy. It goes against every legal precedent set in this country and to not adhere to that and worse, justifying it is bordering on the actions of a police state.

[Samba]

'Met Police officer who left man paralysed not guilty of GBH.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65543574
I would suggest that tasering someone on top of a wall or wheely bins, perhaps shouldn't be considered as police 'best practice'..

[Het-Field]

That's not my point. You were intimating that the police were justified in targeting a specific group due to the actions of not all but some, basically agreeing with the principles of guilty until proven innocent and collective punishment. That's not on and is in theory illegal.

The police should never be justified in applying an arrest first, investigate later policy. It goes against every legal precedent set in this country and to not adhere to that and worse, justifying it is bordering on the actions of a police state.

To be clear I’m not justifying it, and in no way do I agree with an arrest first, ask questions later approach. That is a total violation no matter who that happens to. My point is more specific to things like football banning orders, and measures taken in relation to maintaining public order at football matches. And my point is not to justify them, but to offer an explanation for why they came about, and why I think it is inherently different to the arrest of people from groups like Republic, on the day of a coronation.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

To be clear I’m not justifying it, and in no way do I agree with an arrest first, ask questions later approach. That is a total violation no matter who that happens to. My point is more specific to things like football banning orders, and measures taken in relation to maintaining public order at football matches. And my point is not to justify them, but to offer an explanation for why they came about, and why I think it is inherently different to the arrest of people from groups like Republic, on the day of a coronation.

Football banning orders are issued after arrest and conviction which is fair enough, if you've been naughty and got caught this is what happens. But on matchdays to treat ALL football fans as hooligans when it clearly isn't the case is something that just isn't right in a supposedly free society. It would appear that all your rights go out the window on a matchday (certainly was the case in the past) and it was open season for the police to let off a bit of steam.

What happened to the people of the Republic group was completely wrong and I sincerely hope the police are punished for their actions. I still don't understand though why you think it is inherently different to the arrest of people from groups like Republic, compared to football fans. The principal is exactly the same. The police cannot act as judge, jury and executioner, they are their to uphold the law. They should be arresting people who have broken the law, it's as simple as that.

[Het-Field]

Football banning orders are issued after arrest and conviction which is fair enough, if you've been naughty and got caught this is what happens. But on matchdays to treat ALL football fans as hooligans when it clearly isn't the case is something that just isn't right in a supposedly free society. It would appear that all your rights go out the window on a matchday (certainly was the case in the past) and it was open season for the police to let off a bit of steam.

What happened to the people of the Republic group was completely wrong and I sincerely hope the police are punished for their actions. I still don't understand though why you think it is inherently different to the arrest of people from groups like Republic, compared to football fans. The principal is exactly the same. The police cannot act as judge, jury and executioner, they are their to uphold the law. They should be arresting people who have broken the law, it's as simple as that.

I’m not saying it’s different. My point really is that posters taking solace from the excessive use of powers, just because the heat is off football fans, is not good. And rather that pointing and laughing at the protestors, perhaps being critical of the people in the past who were the reason behind the moral panic (and in some cases genuine and justifiable panic) about football hooliganism, and the excessive sanctions and policing, and the sanitised matchday experience we have today. To be clear, I’m not justifying it.