European Current Affairs (non UK)

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bubbles1966
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European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by bubbles1966 »

Wasn't sure where to put this because it could have slotted into the cost of living, energy or Ukraine threads - though clearly not appropriate for the referendum one.

However, I thought we have a thread on the Americans, and we used to have a Eurozone thread in those days before the referendum became a thing, so why not resurrect it.

So, here goes - Eurozone manufacturing is in it's worst state since the sovereign debt crisis of a decade ago according to the PMIs.

https://www.pmi.spglobal.com/Public/Hom ... 99776aa64f

Putin severely testing resolve, and there's likely to be business failures, unemployment etc. Looks like Germany and Italy are particularly feeling it.
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by Shabu »

I think my question is connected....

Is any country better off now (whether financially, manufacturing, education, etc) than it was four years ago?

Anywhere in Europe, to start with?
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by EvilC »

Shabu wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:39 pm I think my question is connected....

Is any country better off now (whether financially, manufacturing, education, etc) than it was four years ago?

Anywhere in Europe, to start with?
Guessing, with no evidence, Norway, as it is a huge gas exporter.
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by bubbles1966 »

Shabu wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:39 pm I think my question is connected....

Is any country better off now (whether financially, manufacturing, education, etc) than it was four years ago?

Anywhere in Europe, to start with?
Depends on how you measure 'better off'.

On a GDP at constant prices measure, Norway, Switzerland, Ireland are all better off. The Italians were better off 15 years ago. Places like India are caning it.

If you're looking at how much debt countries have, then some are poorly placed if the type of crisis that bubbled up in 2009-2012 resurfaces. The PMIs are pointing to sharp recessions. Tax revenues will collapse, calls for support will increase. How that will work with an economy that has 200% debt to GDP ratio, who knows? We know what happened last time.

In the same way that today's problems in the UK are to a significant extent the product of unfinished business from 2007/2008 with 0% rates unwinding, there may be other problems that are about to unwind in relation to sovereign debt in numerous countries.
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by Shabu »

bubbles1966 wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:08 pm Depends on how you measure 'better off'.

On a GDP at constant prices measure, Norway, Switzerland, Ireland are all better off. The Italians were better off 15 years ago. Places like India are caning it.

If you're looking at how much debt countries have, then some are poorly placed if the type of crisis that bubbled up in 2009-2012 resurfaces. The PMIs are pointing to sharp recessions. Tax revenues will collapse, calls for support will increase. How that will work with an economy that has 200% debt to GDP ratio, who knows? We know what happened last time.

In the same way that today's problems in the UK are to a significant extent the product of unfinished business from 2007/2008 with 0% rates unwinding, there may be other problems that are about to unwind in relation to sovereign debt in numerous countries.
I have no idea how to measure it, mate. General well being and cost of living?
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by bubbles1966 »

The all sector PMI in for the eurozone:

Eurozone output contracts at sharpest rate in almost two years

The German slump is already pointing to something bigger than during the sovereign debt crisis.
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by EvilC »

This crisis is way more threatening than 2008. As hard as it is to believe, it could have been much worse (and could get worse).
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by bubbles1966 »

I'm not sure where Europe goes when Germany gets dragged under.

This is a nation that is culturally averse to inflation following the experiences of the 1920s, yet currently experiencing the worst inflation since 1950. What it would expect of its central bankers is the direct opposite of what the likes of Italy, Greece etc need.

It feels as though there's just been a sticking plaster on their problems for a while, just as ours feels like an after-shock of 2008 with interest rates. The authorities have been so terrified of working towards normalisation that they have failed to act when they should have.
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by bubbles1966 »

The de-industrialisation of Germany: https://www.politico.eu/article/germany ... ices-basf/

Last orders at the bar for Europe.
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by Junco Partner »

Far-sighted, sensible, tangible and beneficial plans to help get us to net zero from our Gallic cousins....

French Car Parks to be Solar Energy Farms

Our last PM wanted to ban them over fields :fsake:
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by bubbles1966 »

The French are busy building things - fortifications on the Italian border as well.

https://www.politico.eu/article/giorgia ... an-viking/

As for solar panels and climate change etc - we're all a bit of an irrelevance aren't we? Unless the Chinese, Indians, Americans, Brazilians, Indonesians etc change their surging use/production, what we/Europe are doing has not a lot of impact.
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by Junco Partner »

I smack my wife about every Saturday night, it's alright though because the American next door smacks his about 5 nights a week and the Chinaman down the street knocks his about every single night.....

Sometimes you have to stop doing stuff because it's simply right to stop doing it.

Can't think of a greater good than preserving humanity's chances of living on Earth. The fact that by doing so means we grow jobs with skills and expertise that will be in high demand globally for the next century or so is a nice side affect.

How do you persuade others to stop their harmful actions if you're still doing them yourself?
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

Someone should report JP to the old bill. :crylol:
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by bubbles1966 »

Junco Partner wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:50 pm Sometimes you have to stop doing stuff because it's simply right to stop doing it.
Sometimes, doing things they make you feel good about yourself but don't make a difference, doesn't count for much.

How about blocking the Beijing M25?
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by chelmsfordhammer91 »

Junco Partner wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:50 pm I smack my wife about every Saturday night, it's alright though because the American next door smacks his about 5 nights a week and the Chinaman down the street knocks his about every single night.....

Sometimes you have to stop doing stuff because it's simply right to stop doing it.

Can't think of a greater good than preserving humanity's chances of living on Earth. The fact that by doing so means we grow jobs with skills and expertise that will be in high demand globally for the next century or so is a nice side affect.

How do you persuade others to stop their harmful actions if you're still doing them yourself?
I get what you mean with your strawman here, and mostly agree that we have to do our bit regardless of other countries.

However, the emerging/higher output countries aren't going to change their ways because we do. We 'first world' countries have gained from the pillage and destruction of our environment, so calling time on it to prevent countries like Brazil pillaging their natural resources for economic growth just won't work.

Although it is correct that it makes hardly any difference overall if we get ourselves to 'net zero' but China/US etc. don't, I do still believe we need to invest in this issue to take advantage of the skill gap. To be proactive instead of reactive would be a nice change.
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by bubbles1966 »

There was a very interesting article in The Conversation about Net Zero. It's written by three climate/environmental professors who all fully believe in global warming, so can't be dismissed as deniers.

They argue that each of the proposed solutions to climate change that have surfaced over 35 years have been little more than a series of comforting but temporary delusions. The technology and will to change does not really exist, the scientific community know this when their 'solutions' get discussed but it is a route to becoming an outcast to actually call this out.
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by vietnammer »

bubbles1966 wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:52 pm How about blocking the Beijing M25?
Pretty much blocks itself every night from what I recall.
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by bubbles1966 »



This appears to be a genuine account, though he won't pay the $8.
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by delbert »

Junco Partner wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:50 pm I smack my wife about every Saturday night, it's alright though because the American next door smacks his about 5 nights a week and the Chinaman down the street knocks his about every single night.....

Sometimes you have to stop doing stuff because it's simply right to stop doing it.

Can't think of a greater good than preserving humanity's chances of living on Earth. The fact that by doing so means we grow jobs with skills and expertise that will be in high demand globally for the next century or so is a nice side affect.

How do you persuade others to stop their harmful actions if you're still doing them yourself?
You get wife smacking credits if you get the Chinese fella to smack his missus more so you don't have to.........
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Re: European Current Affairs (non UK)

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Junco Partner wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:50 pm Can't think of a greater good than preserving humanity's chances of living on Earth. The fact that by doing so means we grow jobs with skills and expertise that will be in high demand globally for the next century or so is a nice side affect.
The greater good for the rest of the inhabitants of this planet might be us sodding off.
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