monkeyhanger wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:38 am
Re: the pension reform demonstrations. France will still have the lowest pension age in Europe if it’s raised to 64 (I’m going to have to wait until I’m 67 to get my U.K. state pension). I love the fact the French get on the streets and protest when they aren’t happy about the erosion of their rights. With what has been going on in the U.K. over the last ten years the Brits should take a leaf out of the French’s book and start ‘going off’ more.
Good on our Gallic cousins
The nutters in charge here want to raise our pension age to 70 by 2028 and to 75 by 2035. We already work the longest hours, for the most years, with the fewest holidays in Europe and retire with the lowest pensions but that's still not enough for the Britannia Unchained mob. The optimum for this Government is that we die in the saddle so never claiming the cash we paid in as tax.
Chancellor Hunt’s crazed vision that people should work until they are 70 chilled my blood, trying to make never ending wage-slavery a virtue is a con-trick the French are way too smart and life-loving to ever fall for.
Pensions: international comparisons Research Briefing (11 March 2022), The Cleiss (Centre for European and International Social Security Liaisons), Expatica Communications.
Junco Partner wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:48 pm
The optimum for this Government is that we die in the saddle so never claiming the cash we paid in as tax.
You are joking aren't you ?
Do you really believe the average citizen in this country pays in more tax to the Government than the Government hands them back in the form of education, protection, healthcare and pensions ?
The entire problem is the average citizen takes out far, far more than they ever put in.
monkeyhanger wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:38 amI love the fact the French get on the streets and protest when they aren’t happy about the erosion of their rights.
Yet at the same time people will protest if they are mandated to contribute significantly more to their pensions. Governments can’t win.
Getting on the streets and smashing the place up seems to be admired by a number of people on here. Personally, I don’t think it achieves anything other than additional cost in terms of policing and repairs afterwards. Money that could be put to good use solving some of the very issues that these people are complaining about.
Just few comments about what's going on with the pensions here:
- The headlines are all mentioning the change of the pension age from 62 to 64, but that's actually concerning a not so big ammount of workers. Most of them will have to work longer, as the minimum age is for people who started working before the age of 20, and with complete careers (no part time, no unemployment period). In my case, I will need to work until I reach the age of 67, reform or not, because of my studies and a chaotic beginning of career.
- One of the biggest concern of the work unions is the negative effect of the reform on the pensions of people with incomplete careers. They are of course mostly poor people, and for some women (because of children, part time jobs, and so on), it could be disastrous.
- There was no violence in the previous demonstrations, but something changed: the government used the article 49.3 which allow them to pass a bill without a vote. This is what triggered spontaneous demonstrations and the use of violence by people who have nothing to do with the work unions. We are back to something closer to the yellow vests episode, with the same response from the police. I think it will grow more and more violent unfortunately. The cynic in me sees that as a deliberate move from the government to deteriorate the now massive support to the protestors from the public opinion.
Misko wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 4:07 pm
Just few comments about what's going on with the pensions here:
- The headlines are all mentioning the change of the pension age from 62 to 64, but that's actually concerning a not so big ammount of workers. Most of them will have to work longer, as the minimum age is for people who started working before the age of 20, and with complete careers (no part time, no unemployment period). In my case, I will need to work until I reach the age of 67, reform or not, because of my studies and a chaotic beginning of career.
- One of the biggest concern of the work unions is the negative effect of the reform on the pensions of people with incomplete careers. They are of course mostly poor people, and for some women (because of children, part time jobs, and so on), it could be disastrous.
- There was no violence in the previous demonstrations, but something changed: the government used the article 49.3 which allow them to pass a bill without a vote. This is what triggered spontaneous demonstrations and the use of violence by people who have nothing to do with the work unions. We are back to something closer to the yellow vests episode, with the same response from the police. I think it will grow more and more violent unfortunately. The cynic in me sees that as a deliberate move from the government to deteriorate the now massive support to the protestors from the public opinion.
Bang on, Misko. (Retirement at 67 for me, too,if I make it that far...)
The big increase in numbers and anger/violence yesterday was due to the use of 49.3. Even those who were ambivalent about the reform are up in arms about Macron riding roughshod over the democratic process ,even if it is allowed for in the constitution, penned by the autocrat De Gaulle himself.
Seriously, I have never known a president be so hated in all my 30 years here. I have friends of (nearly) all political leanings and they ALL actively hate Macron with a real passion.
Toulouse_Iron wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:58 pm
Seriously, I have never known a president be so hated in all my 30 years here. I have friends of (nearly) all political leanings and they ALL actively hate Macron with a real passion.
It always seems he is despised but the only alternative is le pen so he wins. There must be a better option out there surely.
SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:03 pm
It always seems he is despised but the only alternative is le pen so he wins. There must be a better option out there surely.
If there is, they're not on my radar. The old Socialist Party and the Republican Party which were the 2 mainstream parties for donkey's years pre-Macron basically self destructed at the same time (Macron played an absolute blinder, there) and have no real credibility. Le Pen is waiting in the wings, just doing enough to remind people she's still there, watching Macron dig himself a deeper hole. He has no real replacement lined up.
The far left/green coalition might be electable at a push but Melenchon is, in my opinion, a dictator-in-waiting and should not be allowed anywhere near power! Good in opposition but I get a Stalin vibe from him. Ruffin, from the same organisation would be my choice but he won't run.
There are no new ideas, no ideas at all, just variations on the same old themes? The only thing that hasn't been tried in living memory,is extreme right-wing nastiness. Next time, next time. Better get my French passport sorted out before then....
Misko wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:17 pm
I must admit that I am surprised that Macron reaches Sarkozy's levels in my contempt. But he's done an unbelievable job so far...
As for the alternatives, it's very scary, because there's absolutely no one. I am very scared for the next presidential election.
The French hate whoever is in power. They disliked Sarkozy who was from the right, they hated Hollande who was from the left and they hate Macron who is supposedly a centrist. They have a natural disdain for whoever is in power. I think mistrusting those in power is a virtue and being prepared to get on the streets and make your voice heard is to be commended.
What I also like about the French is that there seems to be a voter wall against the extreme right whereas in the U.K. and U.S. there has basically been a far right government in the last ten years.
Cancelling Charles visit next week was the right thing to do. Maybe he’d be beheaded
Being a citizen means a lot more to the French than meekly being a subject.
Junco Partner wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:48 pm
Good on our Gallic cousins
The nutters in charge here want to raise our pension age to 70 by 2028 and to 75 by 2035.
There's a woman at my work who's at least 77. I know her youngest child is older than me (54).
When I worked in Florida there several people who were over 70 & loads more who had retired from their regular job at 60 then came to work in a shop for benefits.
I fear that the UK will continue to drift in this direction as government cuts continue & corporations get ever more powerful.
monkeyhanger wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:59 pm
The French hate whoever is in power. They disliked Sarkozy who was from the right, they hated Hollande who was from the left and they hate Macron who is supposedly a centrist. They have a natural disdain for whoever is in power. I think mistrusting those in power is a virtue and being prepared to get on the streets and make your voice heard is to be commended.
Being a citizen means a lot more to the French than meekly being a subject.
Yes and no, for the hating whoever is in power. Chirac was not hated, he did nothing once he got in, except test a couple of nukes on the other side of the world and, in his second term, refuse to participate in the USA's war "on terror", a decision approved by the French. Sarkozy was not liked and ridiculed and held in contempt and Holland considered useless / pointless and betraying his left ish wing policies by dismantling workers' rights. Disliked? Sure.
I have never seen this level of hate from all sides and I've been here 30 years.
The common theme, from Sarkozy onwards under all presidents has been sod the poor, erode their rights, make them poorer and the rich richer. The same policies as in all western democracies.This creates anger, violence and, ultimately populism, division, hate and resentment. The trouble is just beginning.
monkeyhanger wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:59 pm
What I also like about the French is that there seems to be a voter wall against the extreme right whereas in the U.K. and U.S. there has basically been a far right government in the last ten years.