⚽ West Ham Utd 1-2 Crystal Palace (6/11/22)

[The Old Mile End]

How frustrating was that? To be honest, we are a rubbish watch at the moment and this season hasn’t really got going yet for us. We are sitting far too deep in games – especially in the first half. This is regardless of the opposition. This is either the game plan, or the players aren’t capable of applying the manager’s tactics. It has happened so many times, I’d have to say it is our tactics, plain and simple. It is rubbish to watch.

The running we have shown over the last couple of years has gone from us this season. No longer do we get up and down as a unit. We are an isolated team. Palace frequently drove forward with three of four players running at us with pace. They often got the same numbers into our box - even as late as the 94th minute when they got their deserved winner. We do not do this anymore. We rarely get three players forward into the box and the players are not helping each other out. Witness this game – five attempts on goal, at home to a team we’d more than fancy our chances against.

I watch on tv (I am in Australia after all), yet it is so obvious our work rate is not comparable with many sides in this league. When we go forward, I rarely see our players working together and helping each other out in the same frame (patch of the field). So often it is one lone player, maybe chasing down the flanks, getting there and finding no one else nearby. We are not getting forward in numbers. This style of play gives little options. The result is almost always the wrong ball – a poor cross, or an attempt to hold up play. So often we will slow it down as soon as we break away. So many are guilty of this. So often the first instinct is to check back, slow it down, play it safe.

It is so frustrating because over the last couple of years we have seen the light. With a ragamuffin lot and a makeshift striker, we over achieved big time. And here we are now, with a team of not a few stars, costing a few bob, struggling to get it together.

West Ham and expectation were never the best of bedfellows. Perhaps that’s all it is. But it will be a long World Cup break should we fail to get a much needed result out of the Leicester game.

[the pink palermo]

Neither one of those involve Soucek.

At home, I agree. Away, I don't.

[Colours never run]

"There’s a lot of experts out there, isn’t there?" - David Moyes

The "experts" on this occasion, were right.

[Misko]

I am a bit perplexed by the strict rigidity of the system yesterday. Attacking players stayed in their zone, with very few permutations between them, almost no freedo of movement. For what I have seen so far this season, it is a common feature in the way West Ham play, but I think that when you play creative players, you need to give the leeway they need to express themselves. For example, Paqueta was OK during the game, but the moment he made an impact is when he dropped deeper. But then, nobody compensated which made Bowen, Scamacca and Benrahma even more isolated. To play this way would require lightinig quick wingers I reckon, which is obviously not the case atm.

Another concern would be the gap between the back 6 and the front 4. There is so much space between! Palace midfield was very comfortable for at least 70 minutes if not more. By the way, I really was impressed with Doucouré who just rocked it as he rocked it with Lens. He is still very young, but he is quite a proper player.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

I am a bit perplexed by the strict rigidity of the system yesterday. Attacking players stayed in their zone, with very few permutations between them, almost no freedo of movement. For what I have seen so far this season, it is a common feature in the way West Ham play, but I think that when you play creative players, you need to give the leeway they need to express themselves.

And that, in a nutshell, is the problem

[Hockley Hammer]

The fact is we played a bit better after the double substitution. Not much but we actually seemed to hold on to the ball as we generally do when Lanzini comes on. You could have taken any of the so-called attacking players off. They were all ineffective. Benny's goal was the one bright moment between all of them.

The old West Ham came back in farcical style to deprive us of a point I don't think we deserved in the first place.

[Billy Hunt]

When we had the ball at the back yesterday, Palace had 4 attacking players pressing us, forcing the inevitable errors.

Yet even when we did break through their press, we were outnumbered by their defence when we attacked. Our transition from defence to attack is so poor, slow and predictable.

Watching West Ham is hard work right now and it's noticeable how the crowd turned yesterday. That rarely has a happy ending and I wonder if Moyes snipe towards the fans was his Allardyce, ear cupping moment ?

5 shots at home, against an average Palace team who hadn't won away yet this season, and had 15 shots themselves, is an appalling statistic.

[mushy]

The fact is we played a bit better after the double substitution. Not much but we actually seemed to hold on to the ball as we generally do when Lanzini comes on. You could have taken any of the so-called attacking players off. They were all ineffective. Benny's goal was the one bright moment between all of them.

The old West Ham came back in farcical style to deprive us of a point I don't think we deserved in the first place.

This is very true, the fact is that our passing and movement is very poor. Lanzini and Downes are better passers of the ball then Benrhama and Soucek respectively. Lanzini also knows how to move into space and create triangles to pass through the opposition.
Despite all the booing we looked better after the double substitution.
The downside is that once we went on the attack we became a lot more vulnerable to the counter, and this proved to be the case in the last minute.
Overall Palace looked to be fitter and faster and definitely offered more movement then our lot.
Palace by the way are a very decent side .

[bubbles1966]

The "experts" on this occasion, were right.

The gigantic hole in central midfield that they strolled through for their second goal suggests that taking Soucek off was probably a mistake.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

The gigantic hole in central midfield that they strolled through for their second goal suggests that taking Soucek off was probably a mistake.

They were strolling throiugh our midfield from the 1st minute with Soucek
To try and win the game it was the right decision to take Soucek off IMHO, but not to take Benhrama off

It didn't make much difference as we still created pretty much f*** all anyway, but then we didnt exactly 'go for it'

FWIW i would have brought Downes and Fornals on for Soucek and Bowen

But having already bought Antonio on at half time (that was a weird one), we didn't have that option left for a late surge either

[il_martello_di_genovesi]

They were strolling throiugh our midfield from the 1st minute with Soucek
To try and win the game it was the right decision to take Soucek off IMHO, but not to take Benhrama off

It didn't make much difference as we still created pretty much **** all anyway, but then we didnt exactly 'go for it'

They also took Doucoure off, which actually allowed us to have a tiny bit more of the ball with Milivojevic coming on to basically sit. Soucek coming off made no difference, the same way Benrahma coming off didn’t either. Lanzini was able to pick up the ball when we didn’t have Doucoure waltzing through anymore.

[Wilko1304]

Honestly, the Benrahma thing has become like a cult. Expecting to see buses driving around the stadium soon saying he scores 350 million goals a week if we just release him and let him thrive.

They appear the same people who would tell you Soucek is good for nought but heading and the odd goal.

Neither of these things are reality. Benrahma has played above previous performances and cannot put in the consistent 6/10 performance you need to make your inconsistent 10/10 moments worth having. He scored a great goal and was terrible for the rest of the game.

I thought Moyes’s comments post game were spot on.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

They also took Doucoure off, which actually allowed us to have a tiny bit more of the ball with Milivojevic coming on to basically sit. Soucek coming off made no difference, the same way Benrahma coming off didn’t either. Lanzini was able to pick up the ball when we didn’t have Doucoure waltzing through anymore.

Yep, Palace absolutely deserved to win the game based on the first 65 minutes
However, i would say Viera got a bit lucky that they did actually win it the way they did, as they looked like they had settled for a draw with 15 minutes to go

[Aztec Hammer]

Honestly, the Benrahma thing has become like a cult. Expecting to see buses driving around the stadium soon saying he scores 350 million goals a week if we just release him and let him thrive.

They appear the same people who would tell you Soucek is good for nought but heading and the odd goal.

Neither of these things are reality. Benrahma has played above previous performances and cannot put in the consistent 6/10 performance you need to make your inconsistent 10/10 moments worth having. He scored a great goal and was terrible for the rest of the game.

I thought Moyes’s comments post game were spot on.

Who has been better this season, Benrahma or Soucek?

Who has been better this season, Benrahma or Bowen?

And I'm asking this as someone who generally hasn't rated Benrahma much for us.

[bubbles1966]

They were strolling throiugh our midfield from the 1st minute with Soucek

No they weren't.

[il_martello_di_genovesi]

Yep, Palace absolutely deserved to win the game based on the first 65 minutes
However, i would say Viera got a bit lucky that they did actually win it the way they did, as they looked like they had settled for a draw with 15 minutes to go

There actually might have been some logic in keeping Soucek on the pitch tbf. We probably would have got a draw. There’s no way we would have managed to make enough passes to get that far up the pitch in the first place. I’ve already read that we lost, because we over committed. For a team at home to Crystal Palace with an Xg of 0.19, having a rare attack was over commiting. This is exactly the sort of **** Moyes will use to justify his approach or Soucek constantly playing unfortunately. The fact is, had we been more positive in our approach, there’s a chance we might have scored enough goals to be ahead in the first place. All speculation/prediction of course, but if we keep scoring 1’s and 0’s, we have more chance of losing whatever happens.

As for this conceding 2’s and 3’s last season stuff. We were able to score 2’s and 3’s and even 4’s and win matches. There shouldn’t be much concern about conceding 2’s when we finished 6th and 7th with a positive goal difference. We now barely score at all…

[Crouchend_Hammer]

There actually might have been some logic in keeping Soucek on the pitch tbf. We probably would have got a draw. There’s no way we would have managed to make enough passes to get that far up the pitch in the first place. I’ve already read that we lost, because we over committed. For a team at home to Crystal Palace with an Xg of 0.19, having a rare attack was over commiting. This is exactly the sort of **** Moyes will use to justify his approach or Soucek constantly playing unfortunately. The fact is, had we been more positive in our approach, there’s a chance we might have scored enough goals to be ahead in the first place. All speculation/prediction of course, but if we keep scoring 1’s and 0’s, we have more chance of losing whatever happens.

As for this conceding 2’s and 3’s last season stuff. We were able to score 2’s and 3’s and even 4’s and win matches. There shouldn’t be much concern about conceding 2’s when we finished 6th and 7th with a positive goal difference. We now barely score at all…

Exactlly. we should be over-committing in the last minute when drawing at home

If the opposition score then it is what it is, but i would hardly say we went all out in the last 20 minutes. certainly not as 'all-out' if we had been losing

the game ending 1-1 would not have made the whole situation any better, it would still have been an abject 90 minutes

[S-H]

Soucek has been below par this season, but he's far from the only one, and he's certainly not been as bad as people like to make out.

Like many, he appears devoid of confidence.

Don't underestimate just how important the upcoming break will be for a lot of our players.

[YorksHammer]

They were strolling throiugh our midfield from the 1st minute with Soucek

If they were then you have to ask what the manager did to shore up that issue. And the answer is nothing. If the central midfield is a problem because of the way of play you don't just like-for-like change things up, you switch the system. Downes on for Benrahma (for example) would have allowed for a three man central midfield. Instead we went like-for-like - positionally - with every substitution.

[Aztec Hammer]

There actually might have been some logic in keeping Soucek on the pitch tbf. We probably would have got a draw. There’s no way we would have managed to make enough passes to get that far up the pitch in the first place. I’ve already read that we lost, because we over committed. For a team at home to Crystal Palace with an Xg of 0.19, having a rare attack was over commiting. This is exactly the sort of **** Moyes will use to justify his approach or Soucek constantly playing unfortunately. The fact is, had we been more positive in our approach, there’s a chance we might have scored enough goals to be ahead in the first place. All speculation/prediction of course, but if we keep scoring 1’s and 0’s, we have more chance of losing whatever happens.

As for this conceding 2’s and 3’s last season stuff. We were able to score 2’s and 3’s and even 4’s and win matches. There shouldn’t be much concern about conceding 2’s when we finished 6th and 7th with a positive goal difference. We now barely score at all…

Spot on. Moyes is regressive. We've spent nearly £200m or whatever it was to go backwards because he isn't courageous enough to use those players in the manner most suited to their skillsets. It's always the conservative approach first. Take the handbrake off. We won't let 3 goals in automatically by attacking. We might even score a few ourselves, keep the ball a bit, not be besieged quite so much and man, even put an enjoyable product out on the pitch.

I find it very hard to be convinced that Moyes is the best coach for the players we have. The biggest reason for him to be so seems to be based on previous seasons or conveniently calling this one a 'transition' season.

Personally, I'm not seeing any signs of what we might be transitioning into. Not in a positive sense, anyway.