England's World Cup chances

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Jon
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by Jon »

I pinched this:


I was impressed with the way Plan A didn't work in the first half, so they had another go at Plan A in the second in case it might work. Like turning the plug off and on again. But in this case, it still didn't work.

Then in post match interviews stating that we played ok.

Can't wait to see how Plan A will work against Wales... they'll never expect it!!
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by brownout »

Friend or Foé wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:08 am It would have to be a complete catastrophe against Wales for us not to qualify. I think we’d have to lose by a margin of 4 goals to finish below Wales. And it doesn’t matter what the result is in the other match as it doesn’t put any team above us if they draw.
We were quite poor last night, but the way I see it is that Wales can’t afford to be to conservative against us and need a decent win to qualify. They can’t just rely on going 1-0 up and sitting on the lead by shutting up shop due to their loss to Iran. So they need to throw caution to the wind, which should lead to opportunities for England to create chances.
I wonder if Wales will try to get the very unlikely 4 goal win or just try to win and hope Iran v USA is a draw.
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by szola »

As long as England is through to the knock out stage, anything can happen :newthumb:
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stu1
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by stu1 »

I think our tournament ends in the quarter finals where we meet France.

There’s a strong argument to say a draw against Wales would actually improve our chances in the tournament as we’d likely face an easier route to the semi finals, but that would mean another lack lustre performance. I know people say you just have to beat who’s in front of you, but it’s nonsense to pretend having an easier route doesn’t impact your chances significantly.

In any case I’m sure we’ll beat Wales who have looked poor and don’t have the athleticism to play like the US. Group A us still wide open apart from Qatar but I’d fancy our chances against any of those teams, although Netherlands would be the toughest ask.

Then on to France, but I think Mbappe will make the difference, or Southgate in the wrong way. The only way I see us beating France is by playing Walker (probably in a back 3) and him having the game of his life, he’s the only player who can get near Mbappe pace wise.

If we did somehow beat France, we’d still need to beat two top teams to win it and I can’t see that happening. If we somehow avoid France then I can see us making it to the semi’s or even final but coming up short due to Southgate’s poor in game tactics.
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by Jon »

If and it’s still an if, we play the French in the qtrs, we could play TAA ahead of a full back. Between the two of them they may deal with Mbappe.
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by El brooko79 »

Jon wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:31 pm If and it’s still an if, we play the French in the qtrs, we could play TAA ahead of a full back. Between the two of them they may deal with Mbappe.
To be honest Southgate would go full Moyes and defend the penalty area. No space for Mbappe to run into.
It's been part of his master plan.

On a serious note though I wouldn't be adding TAA into the team to make it more defensively solid. Gifted footballer that he is. Walker will be back by then. Reckon he would have Walker RCB and Trippier RWB.
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by sendô »

Yeah we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves, but Walker will be in the team purely to deal with Mbappe's pace if we play France at any point.

TBH the team I fear the most for England is Spain. It'll be like Croatia 2018 the way they keep the ball.
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by hammers92 »

I think the talk about coming 2nd is tinpot mentality to be honest. If we do meet France, the expectation is on them and being the holders. You have to beat these teams to win the trophy.

I have a sneaky suspicion Maguire is going to deliver a big moment in the knockout rounds, and for positive reasons!
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by stu1 »

Jon wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:31 pm If and it’s still an if, we play the French in the qtrs, we could play TAA ahead of a full back. Between the two of them they may deal with Mbappe.
I think I’d still play Trippier and hope between him and Walker than can get the job done. I’m not one these people who has said Trent can’t defend for the last 2/3 years but in honesty he certainly hasn’t been able to defend for the last 6 months. If we want to beat France then Trent shouldn’t be anywhere near Mbappe……..aa he probably wouldn’t be even if he played!
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by Humbug »

I hope Southgate can utilise the whole squad properly because some of our players just look cream-crackered. What was the point in taking Maddison, Gallagher, Phillips, Foden, White, Walker, Coady, Wilson, Trent-Alexander? Don't really want Dier starting at all as his form has been terrible and littered with errors for Spuds. Definitely want Grealish/Foden/Wilson/Walker (if fit) and rest Declan for Phillips. Might still need to use Stones and Maguire to battle against Kiefer Moore's aerial strength.

I think our chances against France/Portugal/ Brazil/Netherlands/Argentina are not favourable. Also 50-50 (if we played like we did against the USA) against teams like Poland/Belgium/Croatia/Switzerland/Germany
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by stu1 »

Humbug wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:47 am I think our chances against France/Portugal/ Brazil/Netherlands/Argentina are not favourable. Also 50-50 (if we played like we did against the USA) against teams like Poland/Belgium/Croatia/Switzerland/Germany
I don’t think Netherlands and Argentina are as dangerous as the others you mention, particularly Netherlands, both teams have looked distinctly average in both their games so far.

France/Brazil/Spain/Portugal look the most dangerous (in that order), with Argentina probably the next biggest threat followed by Germany/Croatia and lastly a very out of sorts Belgium.

I wouldn’t expect us to beat any of the first four and certainly not three of them back to back, which would likely be the required if we play France in the quarters.
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by mike1961 »

I saw a remarkable similarity between England's first 2 performances and West Ham over the last couple of seasons. Start off attacking and (almost) scoring goals for fun then retreat into a negative defensive system. Of course the quality of the opponents is important but I detect the hand of an over cautious manager in both cases.
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by fmgod »

The only thing I find barmy in the media and fans is the constant call for Foden to play in the 10, he plays as a left winger at City and does every week, it's not his position, he hasn't ever really shown anything for England but surely you play the guy who plays for one of the best clubs in the world in the role he plays every week
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by El brooko79 »

fmgod wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:21 am The only thing I find barmy in the media and fans is the constant call for Foden to play in the 10, he plays as a left winger at City and does every week, it's not his position, he hasn't ever really shown anything for England but surely you play the guy who plays for one of the best clubs in the world in the role he plays every week
Personally wouldn't play him as strict no 10.
But a free role to drift behind Kane.

The nature of his game with Man City as they play as fluid attackers and both left and right.
I don't think he would have a problem doing that job as he is a very good player, and more creative than Mount.

What I sort of agree with is his performances for England.
But I think he massively suffers having to play deeper, he doesn't have exceptional pace. He needs to be drifting about around the penalty area. If we can't get him the ball in more advanced positions then their is no point.
Whilst not in the same league (or even close) I see a similar issue with Benrahma with us.

Back to England, for this reason I think it's more important that Grealish plays. He can start deeper and attack with pace - a reason I think he struggles a bit at Man City. He doesn't get a chance to gain momentum and no space to attack.
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by mushy »

fmgod wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:21 am The only thing I find barmy in the media and fans is the constant call for Foden to play in the 10, he plays as a left winger at City and does every week, it's not his position, he hasn't ever really shown anything for England but surely you play the guy who plays for one of the best clubs in the world in the role he plays every week
The longer Foden stays out of the team the better he gets. The idea that we would have won if Foden had played on Friday instead of current scapegoat Mount is truly laughable.
We were flat footed throughout the team against a fit and resilient USA.
I see current know it all Piers Morgan has also jumped on the bandwagon saying that everyone knows that Foden is the best player in the team.
This is the man who only last season was saying that Arteta was useless and should be sacked.
I like Foden by the way but his selection on Friday wouldn't have made any difference.
It's a mystery why we were so flat but we really need to mix it up from the start and get at teams.
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by mushy »

El brooko79 wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:51 am

Back to England, for this reason I think it's more important that Grealish plays. He can start deeper and attack with pace - a reason I think he struggles a bit at Man City. He doesn't get a chance to gain momentum and no space to attack.
Grealish doesn't attack with pace though does he?
Our pace up front is provided by Saka and Sterling. These two should run riot against the Wales defence tomorrow but most people seem to want them both dropped.
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by stu1 »

fmgod wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:21 am The only thing I find barmy in the media and fans is the constant call for Foden to play in the 10, he plays as a left winger at City and does every week, it's not his position, he hasn't ever really shown anything for England but surely you play the guy who plays for one of the best clubs in the world in the role he plays every week
I think most fans think Foden has the skill set to play as a number 10 without any issue. Man City play in a very fluid manner where their attackers drift into all sorts of spaces. I see no reason to think Foden couldn’t seamlessly play across any position behind a striker, it’s just KDB occupied the 10 role at City.

That being said, Foden hasn’t really pulled up any trees in an England shirt so I understand Mount starting over him. The amount of people who claim to understand the game but seem to not understand what Mount brings to a team is truly staggering. However, I still completely understand the clammer for Foden to replace him after 60-65 minutes, especially if the plan was to also bring on Rashford and Grealish in the wide areas.

There is obviously no guarantee that Foden would have changed the game, but to not even give him the chance was pretty astounding. For all Southgate’s good work, his in game tactics are terrible and regularly hold us back.
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by jabbaglob123 »

Whilst I'm not a fan of Southgate's tactics and team selections most of the time, let's not forget this man is the first manager since 66 to even reach a final of a major tournament. He has achieved what no multi million pound managers have managed to achieve.

I wouldn't write him or the England team off just yet.

Win the group tomorrow get some momentum going and the real tournament starts in the round of 16.
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by stu1 »

Not sure if you post was in reference to mine.

Southgate’s work off the pitch is fantastic and should not be under appreciated, but unfortunately his in game tactics are terrible imo.

In both the Croatia and Italy games it was so obvious we needed to make substitutions earlier or we were going concede but he just freezes on the touch line and becomes far to reactive. Sadly that same trend appeared against US but they just lacked the quality to score against us.

Overall he’s done a very good job but it’s just incredibly frustrating seeing him throw away all his good work off the pitch during key moments on the pitch in tournaments.
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Re: England's World Cup chances

Post by Humbug »

Mount was possibly the worst player on the pitch against USA and needed subbing because several England attacks broke down because he couldn't control the ball or gave it away cheaply. Southgate probably prefers Mount because he's more aggressive in tackling and, when push comes to shove, he'll rather drift into defensive mode than offensive. He's also got his favourites and stubbornly sticks to them while players like Grealish (which is not his 1st choice) pulls several defenders towards him, leaving space for other players to run into. If they don't want to risk getting pulled out of position, they tend to hack him down and give away cheap free kicks. Grealish was fouled several times for the small amount of time he was on, and I think we had 4 or 5 free kicks. I'd rather have Grealish than Sterling and Foden over Mount but I doubt Southgate will risk a more offensive strategy when we play Wales.
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