Maradona or Messi?

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Tezza65
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Tezza65 »

Misko wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:47 am If I had to give money to see one of them play (in their prime of course), I would pick Maradona. If I had to offer a contract to one of them as a club owner, I would pick Messi. The latter is by far a greater pro, an unbelievably consistant player. He just doesn't carry the magic and the mystic Maradona did. Possibly due to mediatic overexposure, but nonetheless, Maradona provoked much stronger emotions, and still does. And, at the end, that's what football is all about, at least for me.
Good post
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Colours never run »

The difference in skill level isn't all that different though. Messi is even quicker than Maradona ever was travelling with the ball at pace and done it against far superior footballing athletes and throughout his long career too, to this very day. Messi is and always has been extremely fit. Messi also has a wand of a left foot but can easily play off his right too.

I grant you Maradona had the slightly better skill/more tricks on the ball but I don't believe he was wildly superior to Messi who can also turn opponents inside and out and as I say, did it against supremely fitter players compared to Maradonas era. The game today in Messis era is the quickest and strongest it's ever been and Messis foot speed, as well as speed of thought is 1 of the reasons why he has managed to avoid injury because players struggle to keep up with him.

In many ways, they're very similar, diminutive, predominantly left footed, ability to dribble past numerous opponents, try outrageous skill, score wonder goals, set up wonder goals. The difference stops however with how professional and quicker/stronger Messi is to Maradona, he has gone up a level on what Maradona was in the modern game and unlike Maradona has won everything there is to win and throughout his career, on every World stage, be it the World Cup, Copa America, Olympic Gold Medallist, European Cups, most Ballon d'Ors and on course to win his 8th (Ronaldo next with 5) he's done it all since the start right until the end. He is The Greatest.

A showreel that best sums him up. Near enough every 1 of his 800 goals are a Worldie...

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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Rozzop »

Denzil wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:35 am If you’re talking peak vs peak, Messi scored 73 goals in a season. Surely that is a higher peak than Maradona?

To put that into context, that one season would put Messi as our 13th highest goal scorer of all time.
Exactly this. 73 goals. Unheard of. If it was that easy to score 50 plus goals a season for over a decade then why has nobody other than Messi and Ronaldo achieved that?

Maradonna a supremly gifted player but so was Zidane, Ronaldinho, Baggio, Best etc nobody is calling them the greatest of all time.

Messi would be the greatest of all time even if he managed 25 goals a season let alone treble that
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Colours never run »

Near enough on every metric he comes out on top.

Even the longstanding debate of Messi vs Ronaldo he wins out on most. The only real metric that currently holds him back is his age for simply being 2 years and 4 months younger than him. He'll surpass him even further...

https://www.messivsronaldo.app/

Maradonas not even in the discussion when it comes to silverware or how many goals/assists/games he's achieved by comparison.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Friend or Foé »

Stats don’t count though do they !
If they did, how did Ian Bishop become to be recognised as one of the greatest midfielders of all time ?
And thus your argument is flawed.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Colours never run »

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It doesn't matter which way we slice it, Messi comes out on top vs anyone once everything has been considered in the round.

And all achieved during a time when the game has never been quicker, stronger or more demanding. Pitches are better, not as harder tackles but I'd equally argue Messi would have danced his way around pitches like he does now if placed in the 70s/80s/90s.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by thamesideiron »

Messi does seem to have a little bit of Magic I've not seen in any other player before,he seems to work 2 or 3 seconds ahead of everyone
else...amazing speed of thought and awareness.
Him or Maradona.....Messi Just, for me cos of that.
But when it come to the Ronaldo V Messi thing,I've always edged towards Ronaldo,cos feel Ronaldo proved himself more by playing in
different leagues...Spain,Italy,English PL...whereas Messi was playing a lot of games,surrounded by the worlds best MFers,and team
in general,for most of his career.. playing against sides that would struggle in the PL,so had maybe an easier time of it than Ronaldo.

Then we have the thing, and difference between...Worlds best "Footballer" or Worlds best "Strikers/Goalscorers"
Is the worlds best goalscorer a Better footballer than the Worlds best CH,Or MFer.
IMO to be judged the Worlds best Footballer....which don't think you can say anyway...one of the....yes,not "THE" best,you have to be that, a
a Complete Footballer,so to me that means the ability to play anywhere from CH to Midfields sweeping or an 8 or 10,Play as a Striker,
Winger even..
To me Ruud Gullit is right up there with one best players I've ever seen...he could just play anywhere to an international standard.
Also Cruyff...what he didn't know about footie isn't worth knowing..it's the Total Football thing I like....if you can play footie,
you can play anywhere on the pitch.
Remember Gullit against us once at the Bridge,played Sweeper...never ever seen a guy control a game like that...I was nearly
clapping the F***er.... :lol:

Declan has a lot of that about him...just a Really good Footballer who could do a job anywhere.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Ironing Board »

Colours never run wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 4:26 pm Personal Awards
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It doesn't matter which way we slice it, Messi comes out on top vs anyone once everything has been considered in the round.

And all achieved during a time when the game has never been quicker, stronger or more demanding. Pitches are better, not as harder tackles but I'd equally argue Messi would have danced his way around pitches like he does now if placed in the 70s/80s/90s.
Exactly - he'd be a physical beast back then. He would just waltz through defences.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Colours never run »

thamesideiron wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:40 pm But when it come to the Ronaldo V Messi thing,I've always edged towards Ronaldo,cos feel Ronaldo proved himself more by playing in
different leagues...Spain,Italy,English PL ....whereas Messi was playing a lot of games,surrounded by the worlds best MFers,and team
in general,for most of his career.


So has Ronaldo playing at Man Utd, Real Madrid and Juventus. The only place he hasn't been surrounded by quality is the Club he started out in at Sporting Lisbon which couldn't exactly be helped. He doesn't need to be plonked in a top Premier League Team to prove he could cut it here, it would be a forgone conclusion.

https://michelacosta.com/messi-vs-ronal ... gue-teams/
Last edited by Colours never run on Tue Dec 20, 2022 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Ironing Board »

The best players tend to find themselves in the best teams, especially nowadays. The days of guys like Lubo Morvacik spending most of his time at a midtable club and France and Matt Le Tissier spending a career at Southampton are long gone.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Colours never run »

Messi doesn't even score Hat-Tricks against our best Teams in the Premier League, he scores 4...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.spor ... 42026.html

And another Hat-Trick vs mega rich Man City...

https://www.eurosport.co.uk/football/ch ... tory.shtml
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Friend or Foé »

Colours never run wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 6:47 pm Messi doesn't even score Hat-Tricks against our best Teams in the Premier League, he scores 4...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.spor ... 42026.html

And another Hat-Trick vs mega rich Man City...

https://www.eurosport.co.uk/football/ch ... tory.shtml
Sort of ?
In both of those examples, neither Arsenal or Man City in those respective seasons were any where near the best side in this country. In 16/17 Man City finished a good 30 pts down on the champions that season. Barcelona though were considered the worlds best team 4 times over that period of 09 to 16. Iniesta, Xavi, Puyol, Busquets and Pique were all World Cup and Euro champ winners in 2010 ,2008 & 2012 without Messi ! That’s not to mention other top internationals that they had that went deep into those major championships.
That tells a story of the quality that Messi was amongst during the vast bulk of his career.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by thamesideiron »

Colours never run wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 6:13 pm So has Ronaldo playing at Man Utd, Real Madrid and Juventus. The only place he hasn't been surrounded by quality is the Club he started out in at Sporting Lisbon which couldn't exactly be helped. He doesn't need to be plonked in a top Premier League Team to prove he could cut it here, it would be a forgone conclusion.

https://michelacosta.com/messi-vs-ronal ... gue-teams/
Hi,Just think Ronaldo has "Challenged" himself more by moving around,settling in,learning how different teams play,new Languages,cultures.
Plus until recently,you could say he had contributed more to his Countries successes than Messi.


Not saying thats a tough gig for him tho... :lol: ....But end of the day it's what makes you happy...Messi loves Barca,Ronaldo doesn't have
that affinty to anyone.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Colours never run »

Friend or Foé wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 6:49 am Sort of ?
In both of those examples, neither Arsenal or Man City in those respective seasons were any where near the best side in this country. In 16/17 Man City finished a good 30 pts down on the champions that season. Barcelona though were considered the worlds best team 4 times over that period of 09 to 16. Iniesta, Xavi, Puyol, Busquets and Pique were all World Cup and Euro champ winners in 2010 ,2008 & 2012 without Messi ! That’s not to mention other top internationals that they had that went deep into those major championships.
That tells a story of the quality that Messi was amongst during the vast bulk of his career.
They were still quality Premier League sides and yet he still scores hat-tricks against them (4 in one), as well as all the other goals and assists he's made against the rest he's comes up against in the Champions League...

https://michelacosta.com/messi-vs-ronal ... gue-teams/

And he's still terrorising top quality Premier League Teams as recently as last season for a new Team in a different Country...



So I think it's fair to say he'd do alright in the Premier League against the rest, especially when plonked in 1 of the top 6 Teams.

And as I've said previously, he's also achieved success in an Argentina side that's not littered with top quality and yet he almost single handedly (the number of MotM awards/goals/assists he rightfully picked up were evident of that) dragged it to both a Copa America and a World Cup, even after a crushing opening defeat against Saudi Arabia in the 1st game.

He doesn't need to play in anymore Worldwide League's/Competitions/Tournaments to prove his worth. He'd clearly do it anywhere as he's proved in Spain, France or for Argentina reaching Finals and winning.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Ironing Board »

Don't forget how he was the best player on the park in this amazing Champions League debut.

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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Colours never run »

I could show you a lot more better examples than that night. The bloke is a living genius and he's still going after all these years.

This one always puts a big smile on my face when considering the occasion and how the game panned out scoring his 500th Barcelona goal...



As you watch it, look out for around the 8 minute mark to prove that even he in this day and age has had to quickly avoid serious injury/ankle break at full speed but because he's that quick and aware of his surroundings, he always manages it. It isn't just luck he has avoided terrible injuries, he knows how to protect himself too, which is a skill in itself.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Friend or Foé »

Colours never run wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:35 am
So I think it's fair to say he'd do alright in the Premier League against the rest, especially when plonked in 1 of the top 6 Teams.
No question about it, he’d do very very well I’m sure. But going back to the original point, and it’s entire subjective to believe that Maradona was arguably a better player than Messi.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Colours never run »

Based on what?

It wouldn't be based on Titles, Ballon d'Ors, Awards, Goals, Assists, Appearances, longevity, fitness, speed. The only thing he is better at, is a few more tricks and cheating.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed watching Maradona play but Messi is on another level pretty much in most aspects of the game.

Image

And he's nowhere near finished yet...
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Paolopaul »

Whether you think Messi is the GOAT or not, can anyone explain to me why the World Cup win changes anything? The fact that Martinez saved more penalties than Lloris surely shouldn’t have any impact on whether Messi is the greatest or not? Yet I’m reading everywhere it’s now undisputed.

Added to this Argentina had a generous route to the final and no fewer than 5 really generous penalties in the competition, plus in the final Messi gave the ball away cheaply to let France get back to 2-2, and was captain as Argentina did everything they could to throw away the game.

Messi may be the GOAT, but I really don’t see the World Cup as any way to enhance the argument.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Colours never run »

Generous route to the Final? :eh:

They had to play a hard fought north American Mexico side, a difficult well disciplined defensive Polish side in the Group stage and a half decent Team from the region that even best them to begin with. Then in the knock out stage they had to beat a hard working Austrialian side, a quality Dutch side and a Croatian side boasting arguably the best defender at the World Cup in the Semi's, who usually get to at least the Semi's at World Cups and to top it off beat the current World Champions who boast Mbappe amongst many other quality players. There route to win the Cup was one of the hardest to win it, tested in every way and they achieved it with Messi leading the way the entire time producing some outstanding performances, match after match producing Man of the Matches.

I agree though, he didn't really need to win the World Cup to prove he's the greatest but it certainly went a long way to settling any doubts by those who deemed it very important.
Last edited by Colours never run on Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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