Maradona or Messi?

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White Goodman
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by White Goodman »

I wonder how successful Messi would have been without taking drugs as a teenager which are banned by every sporting body as an adult.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by S-H »

White Goodman wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:59 am I wonder how successful Messi would have been without taking drugs as a teenager which are banned by every sporting body as an adult.
Just as good, but able to run between peoples legs..
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by claretnblueglasses »

White Goodman wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:59 am I wonder how successful Messi would have been without taking drugs as a teenager which are banned by every sporting body as an adult.
I took growth hormone as a kid, and believe me, it certainly did nothing to improve my lack of footballing ability :grin:
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by ageing hammer »

stu1 wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:46 am That’s not really what I said though is it. Where did I say if you haven’t won a World Cup you aren’t up there with the best?

You’ve just made up an argument with yourself.

All I said was if Messi wins the World Cup it is a clear differentiator between him and Ronaldo, which it is. When two players have such similar careers, then one having won the World Cup matters when comparing the two (no one else).
Sorry Stu I just replied to your post because it jogged my memory about that issue I know you didn't imply it,

I get what you are saying now that I read over it again, sorry mate,

I am an expert making up arguments with myself :grin:
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by ageing hammer »

claretnblueglasses wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:23 pm I took growth hormone as a kid, and believe me, it certainly did nothing to improve my lack of footballing ability :grin:
You did put it into your legs right? :rofl:
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by White Goodman »

claretnblueglasses wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:23 pm I took growth hormone as a kid, and believe me, it certainly did nothing to improve my lack of footballing ability :grin:
Yeah I wasn't expecting it to make you skilful :crossed: but it helped you to grow.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by claretnblueglasses »

White Goodman wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:43 pm Yeah I wasn't expecting it to make you skilful :crossed: but it helped you to grow.
It did thankfully, but only to the level that would have otherwise been natural if my pituitary gland had being producing the correct amount of hormones to begin with, to be fair.

If he was growing at a normal rate and then added the hormones to gain an advantage on everyone else, it would be unfair.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by StevePottsGoalsReel »

claretnblueglasses wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:07 pm If he was growing at a normal rate and then added the hormones to gain an advantage on everyone else, it would be unfair.
Precisely, Messi's still only ended up as 5'7" after spending his entire teenage years on the growth hormones.

Not exactly a giant, is he!
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Ironing Board »

Tezza65 wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:20 am I think the majority that have gone for Messi,probably weren't around when Maradona in the 80's or just ignorant.

The Italian League was the best in Europe.The best players played there then.It was where the money was,For Maradona to go there and lift 2 titles for an unfashionable club (at the time).That is their only 2 League titles.It's like Messi going to Barnsley and winning them.

I will agree that Messi has been more consistent and is one of the very best,but Maradonna was kicked from pillow to post and why he got injured so much. I never see ANYBODY do what Maradona could do with a Football.
A bit of an exaggeration. For one thing, Napoli spent an unholy amount of money to sign him in the first place - a world record fee. Also, back then you had limited foreigners, with Diego being the only non-Italian in the team for a spell. They had top players like Fernando De Napoli, Careca and Bruno Giordano.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by StevePottsGoalsReel »

Perhaps this says more about the relative strengths of their peers in each era, but notable that Maradona was Argentine Player of the Year 4 times whereas Messi has won it 14 times.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by D C »

White Goodman wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:59 am I wonder how successful Messi would have been without taking drugs as a teenager which are banned by every sporting body as an adult.
Such a nonsense argument given every child with said deficiencies would be given the same treatment in any developed nation for the last 3 decades at least
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by D C »

Tezza65 wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:20 am I think the majority that have gone for Messi,probably weren't around when Maradona in the 80's or just ignorant.

The Italian League was the best in Europe.The best players played there then.It was where the money was,For Maradona to go there and lift 2 titles for an unfashionable club (at the time).That is their only 2 League titles.It's like Messi going to Barnsley and winning them.

I will agree that Messi has been more consistent and is one of the very best,but Maradonna was kicked from pillow to post and why he got injured so much. I never see ANYBODY do what Maradona could do with a Football.
I always wonder how people who I assume lived in England pre the www can have such strong opinions about Maradona’s greatness. Surely it’s based on not much more than highlights and the world cup? No doubt he looks unreal and I don’t doubt he’s one of the greatest but how consistently was he that great? Because I watched Messi literally twice a week for 60 to 70 games a season be disgustingly good in the best league in the world and the CL

Comparing Napoli to Barnsley is comical, Maradona was the most expensive signing in history for them how are Barnsley doing that? On top of that they were the most expensive squad assembled at that point. He fled Spain because of disgusting play which he apparently coped more than Messi could have and won 3 league titles in 20 years that’s nothing to shout about and nothing in the couple of European cup runs Napoli got
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Colours never run »

Seen them both play (Messi in person twice) on the telly down the years and although Maradona was the slightly more skillful dribbler, overall I'd still pick Messi for everything he's achieved in the game with longevity and the way he's conducted himself by comparison. I'll never forgive Maradona for that hand of God moment which tainted his legacy cheating us the way he did. Messi is the more rounded, more accomplished Footballer who has all the awards since day dot to back it up.

I actually had the privilege 5 years ago to see Messi play for the 1st time at the Camp Nou in a catalan derby match vs Espanyol where he scored a Hat-trick in a 5-0 win. He was mesmerising to watch whenever he sprung in to action, as he always made the right decisions when he had the ball in his possession and executed most things to perfection. The weird thing I remember about his game was for long periods he would just look disinterested loitering around the centre circle but when the ball was in his vicinity he would come to life and was a real joy to watch. The thing is, he's done it his entire long career too and doesn't look like easing up anytime soon either. The bloke is a genius.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Tezza65 »

D C wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:05 pm I always wonder how people who I assume lived in England pre the www can have such strong opinions about Maradona’s greatness. Surely it’s based on not much more than highlights and the world cup? No doubt he looks unreal and I don’t doubt he’s one of the greatest but how consistently was he that great? Because I watched Messi literally twice a week for 60 to 70 games a season be disgustingly good in the best league in the world and the CL

Comparing Napoli to Barnsley is comical, Maradona was the most expensive signing in history for them how are Barnsley doing that? On top of that they were the most expensive squad assembled at that point. He fled Spain because of disgusting play which he apparently coped more than Messi could have and won 3 league titles in 20 years that’s nothing to shout about and nothing in the couple of European cup runs Napoli got
Ok,Barnsley was a bit over the top.You could say a West Ham.After all,we broke the World Record for the the most expensive keeper and we were in the old Division 2 at the time.

Of coarse Messi was more successful(he played with best teams and player),but technically in my opinion,Maradona was a better player.

It's all about opinion.There is neither a right or wrong.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Colours never run »

But that's just it, he hasn't done it with the best Teams always. And I'm not talking about Clubs either. Internationally he hasn't played in the best Argentinian Teams compared to the old Argentinian Teams of the past in 78 or 86 where Maradona won. Sure Argentina have some decent players but overall in this World Cup they've not been littered with amazing talent and yet Messi has predominantly dominated the past 2 Tournament wins for them and all whilst in the twilight of his career. The most Man of the Match awards in this Tournament picked up by anyone, ever as one indicator of his footballing dominance. And he's not done it against some real quality too, be it the excellent now former World Champions, an exciting Dutch Team, Modrics Croatian side boasting the Tournaments best Defender he reduced to looking like a Pub player, or even against a rival national side in Mexico.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Shabu »

StevePottsGoalsReel wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:35 pm Perhaps this says more about the relative strengths of their peers in each era, but notable that Maradona was Argentine Player of the Year 4 times whereas Messi has won it 14 times.
Messi is definitely more professional & has been a great for longer than Maradona was, but Maradona shone brighter, much brighter, for a few years.

His peak was higher than Messi's.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Ironing Board »

Shabu wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:50 am Messi is definitely more professional & has been a great for longer than Maradona was, but Maradona shone brighter, much brighter, for a few years.

His peak was higher than Messi's.
Was it really though? The game was so much slower then and Messi has scored similar one man dribbling gold against modern teams. Maradona just faded a lot quicker as he was living like Tony Montana, getting cocaine served to him on silver platters by the mafia.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Friend or Foé »

Shabu wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:50 am Messi is definitely more professional & has been a great for longer than Maradona was, but Maradona shone brighter, much brighter, for a few years.

His peak was higher than Messi's.
I think you’re spot on Shabu.
Maradona was a real showman. I’d also say that Argentina in 86 were a very, very average side apart from Maradona. Obviously neither side 86 or 22 would’ve won without their main men but Maradona for me was simply more electric than possibly any player I’ve ever seem.
2 factors to throw in though, defences are better these days, but on the reverse side Messi would have far more protection from the rulebook than in Maradona’s era.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Misko »

If I had to give money to see one of them play (in their prime of course), I would pick Maradona. If I had to offer a contract to one of them as a club owner, I would pick Messi. The latter is by far a greater pro, an unbelievably consistant player. He just doesn't carry the magic and the mystic Maradona did. Possibly due to mediatic overexposure, but nonetheless, Maradona provoked much stronger emotions, and still does. And, at the end, that's what football is all about, at least for me.
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Re: Maradona or Messi?

Post by Denzil »

If you’re talking peak vs peak, Messi scored 73 goals in a season. Surely that is a higher peak than Maradona?

To put that into context, that one season would put Messi as our 13th highest goal scorer of all time.
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