⚽ Arsenal 3-1 West Ham Utd (26/12/22)

Relive every moment of every first team game since the beginning of the 2005/06 season. Our archive of matchday threads originally posted in the General Discussion Forum.

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Crouchend_Hammer
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

It doesn't matter what players we have available or who we bought, Moyes is far too pragmatic and long in the the tooth to change the style of play he has deployed for twenty years

He likes players like Soucek as they fit the way he likes his teams to play

He is not going to change the methods that have served him relatively well for his entire career - he didn't even di that when he was at Manchetse United with all the resources at his disposal

There is q reason 'Moyesball' is a phrase
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by Believer »

simon hammer wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:28 pm Can't really argue with anything pinky has written in his last couple of posts tbh. I'll add this though:

If the players we have signed are so good, how come they're with us and not a much bigger team?
McCoist mentioned before and after the game last night that he looked at our team sheet and thought we were far too good to be where we are in the league. He pointed to the league game at Anfield where we were unlucky not to get a point.

This is the rub though. On paper, we have a decent squad, even with the injuries. The problem is getting them to play as a cohesive unit.

As someone else mentioned, you look at Newcastle’s team yesterday and there’s not much between us apart from a lot of their players are younger. Difference is, Howe has them playing with belief, a swagger, the exact same as we had the last 2 years. Something has gone wrong for it to be so noticeably different this season. Something or someone appears to be stinking the place out.
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by wildkard »

The fact that half our team are old cannot be overstated. Makes a huge difference IMO
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by simon hammer »

BigFatSam wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:34 pm We signed them when we were considered good.
Good for two seasons.

Woeful decision making on the players part...and woeful decision making isn't limited to off pitch activities either.

To sign for a club considered 'good' based upon nothing more than two seasons when, in reality, that club has been mostly average for it's entire existence, doesn't show much foresight on behalf of the player that decides we're a good option.

Average players, in an average team that's currently performing at a below average level. That's our reality.

Sullivan thinking he can sign a player like Paquetta and double his money in a season or two? Ridiculous.

And that's where the problem truly lies.
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by il_martello_di_genovesi »

simon hammer wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:28 pm Can't really argue with anything pinky has written in his last couple of posts tbh. I'll add this though:

If the players we have signed are so good, how come they're with us and not a much bigger team?
You mean asking why the top 5 clubs wouldn’t sign Benrahma as a way to slate him? Yh, class that is…

I’ll just ask the same about Soucek. Would the top 5 clubs in the Country sign him? 42% pass completion, but Benrahma is the problem. With the added conspiracy theory that he’s played as some kind of message to Sullivan, but not the fact he’s been one of our better performers this season?

It’s garbage…
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by Wilko1304 »

Oh Benrahma was awful yesterday.

He’s got some excellent technical attributes, but very little in terms of brains. Don’t know why you’d pick him for a game like that, his discipline and concentration are poor and he’s going to be forced back a lot more than he’s allowed forward. I’m no big fan, but you’re setting him up for a fall.

Very little to suggest Moyes and Benny get each other, but he’s not good enough for it to factor into any questions on Moyes’s future.
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by DenziMart »

Seeing all the pundits getting carried away saying Arsenal can now win the league. They do realise it was West Ham they beat last night, right? I reckon Gillingham, perched at the bottom of the entire league, would have a good chance of turning us over right now.
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by pezza20 »

players in our side too old.

Our best player last night wa Dawson.
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by simon hammer »

il_martello_di_genovesi wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 1:34 pm You mean asking why the top 5 clubs wouldn’t sign Benrahma as a way to slate him? Yh, class that is…

I’ll just ask the same about Soucek. Would the top 5 clubs in the Country sign him? 42% pass completion, but Benrahma is the problem. With the added conspiracy theory that he’s played as some kind of message to Sullivan, but not the fact he’s been one of our better performers this season?

It’s garbage…
I'm not in the habit of slating any of our players, and I wasn't being specific about Benrahma so where you've got that from is the inside of your head.

My issue is with the chairman playing "double your money" with signings. Instead of looking for players who will fit into the team, his key criteria seems to be "can I make money in a season or two from buying this player now? Can I flog him for twice the price?"

How many of our players has he done that with during his tenure as custodian of the club?

If he knew what he was doing, the answer would be all of them. I highly suspect it's far closer to none of them. And the reason for that?

They're not that good to start with, and neither is he.
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by il_martello_di_genovesi »

simon hammer wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 2:02 pm I'm not in the habit of slating any of our players, and I wasn't being specific about Benrahma so where you've got that from is the inside of your head.

How is it in my head? You said you can’t disagree with anything TPP has written, and I’ve basically responded to that, or aren’t you sure what you were agreeing with? Benrahma doesn’t need praise for his performance Yesterday as he did nothing to deserve praise. However, he didn’t do much to deserve singling out for criticism when half of the team were much worse. There was a moment in the first half where Benrahma had to cover for Cresswell btw, as Cresswell tucked inside as he does by making no attempt to stop crosses. That won’t unfortunately be mentioned though…
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by r99c »

We seemed to literally sit back all game long. That's on the manager. You'll watch other Arsenal games this season where teams actually have a bit of a go themselves and either get points, or at least lose in a good and proud manner. Bored of us playing this way every time we have a good side up against us, literally parked the bus and came away with a 3-1 loss.
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by simon hammer »

il_martello_di_genovesi wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 2:07 pm How is it in my head? You said you can’t disagree with anything TPP has written, and I’ve basically responded to that, or aren’t you sure what you were agreeing with? Benrahma doesn’t need praise for his performance Yesterday as he did nothing to deserve praise. However, he didn’t do much to deserve singling out for criticism when half of the team were much worse. There was a moment in the first half where Benrahma had to cover for Cresswell btw, as Cresswell tucked inside as he does by making no attempt to stop crosses. That won’t unfortunately be mentioned though…
"If the players we have signed" is what I wrote. Where does that singularly apply to Benrahma? Pinky mentioned Benny, I expanded it to apply to all of them.

You've made it all about Benny.

Fwiw...I don't think he is as bad as pinky suggests, just woefully inconsistent.
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by thamesideiron »

Said on about 80mins...this is boys against men...had a think,and yeah I was spot on..But the Boys were giving the Men a lesson
in how to play and win a game...
Workrate,Pressing,movement on and off the ball,awareness,commitment...all the things you need to win a Footie match,they
were in a word, Simply Better.
If Their Manager wasn't such a Horrible Blinkered little Prat,I Could give them loads of praise the way they play.

We Don't Press even in the MF we sit back and wait for the Oppos Loose Pass/Mistake,when that happens we still can't play out cos
other teams press you,and we're into 50/50 ball retention place deep in our own half....when we do find a couple yards,we give the bloody
ball away,don't think I've ever seen a quality professional team give the ball away so much,I don't like the blame game on individual
players but we have 2 or 3 that are prime suspects for that.

Feel like I wanna take our Squad and treat them like Schoolkids learning the game...Personally I'd sit them down,make them watch a Vid
of last nights game....Watch Arsenal not yourselves ...this is how you win games,you shut players down immediantly you loose possesion,
you chase and harry till they lose it...be first to the ball,find space when you don't have it,make runs into that space,don't ball watch,
...Watched Mubama when he came on,straight away started to shut down encouraging others to do it pointing who needs picking up,
thats a youngster on our bench that gets it.

The Drop off in Performance and Attitude in the 12 months or so has been nothing short of Crazy...just don't get it...Injuries,to many
new faces at once,to many games,Coaches leaving,Nobes not around...maybe just to much to deal with,but find it hard to make
excuses for highly paid footballers and Managers...not to know or do the basics in the game.

We're a tough watch at the moment,and a bloody frustrating one...

Still not in the Moyes Out Camp yet tho...due to the above excuses we still owe him till the end of season IMO.
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by Aaron-aldinho »

Believer wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:50 pm McCoist mentioned before and after the game last night that he looked at our team sheet and thought we were far too good to be where we are in the league. He pointed to the league game at Anfield where we were unlucky not to get a point.

This is the rub though. On paper, we have a decent squad, even with the injuries. The problem is getting them to play as a cohesive unit.

As someone else mentioned, you look at Newcastle’s team yesterday and there’s not much between us apart from a lot of their players are younger. Difference is, Howe has them playing with belief, a swagger, the exact same as we had the last 2 years. Something has gone wrong for it to be so noticeably different this season. Something or someone appears to be stinking the place out.
Howe is playing to the players strengths to suit the team unit and letting them express themselves and enjoy it.

Moyes is restricting the players to a system that stopped working a long time ago and nullifying the players individual strengths to fit his own negative tactics.

So we now carry at least 3 or 4 players every game, either well out of form having a poor game or out of position playing a different role than they should be and just hoping they dont cost us.... even though it is costing us the replacement players are more of the same situation which just ends up with more or the same poor performances....... considering the money spent in the summer, after some good seasons, to end up in this mess is absolute madness and total mismanagement.

After a year of it with no improvment atall, if anything its still getting worse its absolutely on Moyes and he should have gone already.
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by Vic_Watson »

thamesideiron wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 2:53 pm Still not in the Moyes Out Camp yet tho...due to the above excuses we still owe him till the end of season IMO.
We'll be down by then.
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by szola »

What I really missed yesterday was those rough tackles that we used to give when playing against soft teams.

The ones Antonio was on the receiving end of, time and time again.
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by MB »

szola wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 7:53 pm What I really missed yesterday was those rough tackles that we used to give when playing against soft teams.

The ones Antonio was on the receiving end of, time and time again.
Given some of the bookings we got, we’d have ended with eight men if we’d done that especially as we only got close enough when they were in our half (where most of their fouls against us occurred hence they lack of bookings).
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by JLCABA »

I know it sounds like sour grapes but to see Arteta brandishing an imaginary red card because Bowen jumps for a header puts me off this game I have loved since 1967 just a bit more
There will come a time when I walk away
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by Humbug »

I've been looking at the extended highlights and there were so many mistakes leading to their goals.



1st goal: Look at 6:41 - It wasn't Coufal's fault but Bowen who was ball watching and not tracking back. He left Coufal having to keep an eye on 2 Arsenal players. He had to cover their number 14 in case of a through ball down the middle then had to stop and track back to cover a possible pass to number 34 . Bowen was basically ambling the whole time just watching the ball. This was why Coufal ended up too close to the goal keeping Saka onside for that miskick pass.

2nd goal: Look at 7:10 - lose the ball from a throw-in (like we've done on a countless number of occasions for the last few seasons). Declan Rice makes a terrible attempt to head the ball and loses possession to Saka too easily. Then we are caught stretched allowing Martinelli in but Fab screws up by not covering the near post (his feet are too slow now).

3rd goal : Look at 8:13 - We have another throw in - Creswell has an easy run or pass forward down the line but decides to stall and try and pass it back to Rice. Saka easily dispossesses him and now we're in trouble. Then check out 8:38 and Soucek ball watching instead of closing in on their number 8 who had so much time to make that pass to Nketiah.
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Re: ⚽ Arsenal vs West Ham United: match thread

Post by hammerman11 »

whilst we cannot go gun ho in matches how about we try and retained the ball.
number of times we hit a long ball to bowen , bung it up to antonio or just kick it anywhere.
we have no pattern of play that is based on possession, all you hear from moyes is keeping it tight, hanging in there, micking a goal.

too many old players will see a team in trhe PL struggle. however dawson was MOTM . coufal did ok .
cresswell got done by a quick young player. antonio did ok on his own but needed subbing earlier
fabianksi was poor

players like kehrer paqueta soucek were far worse

our style of play does not help their recovery times in a match.
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