⚽ West Ham Utd 0-2 Brentford (30/12/22)
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Re: West Ham United v Brentford: Match Thread
I want moyes out but I think the writing is on the wall I think we have to prepare ourselves for relegation whoever is in charge . He should have gone while the world Cup was going on the new manager would have had a chance against the 4 teams we had up next. Leeds will beat this team with moyes or another manager in charge might aswell leave moyes there because we are being relegated this season . This will be the worst stadium next season with it half filled in the championship.
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Re: West Ham United v Brentford: Match Thread
We were in Row 14 directly behind the goal, that was a great save from Fab, as you say, the ball was really moving. Not his fault for that one or the second goal, shocking defending, especially from Cresswell. He was awful.simon hammer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 30, 2022 8:14 pm Laws of physics don't apply to our keeper then, because at that range, at the speed the ball was travelling, all he could do was react.
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Re: West Ham United v Brentford: Match Thread
Antonio summed up in a moment, great strength and perseverance to get through four(?) defenders and create a chance, then simple error knocking the ball away and missing his shot.
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Re: West Ham United v Brentford: Match Thread
I said exactly the same on the way home. The difference between the sides last night is they simply have the ability to do the defensive basics and we don't. I can't believe moyes praised Brentfords first goal when, not only do we not win the first ball from a long throw (which we would habe prep'd for in training), but we lose the 2nd. Cress then gets murdered for the 2nd goal and you simply can't defend like that at this level as its just gifting goals which is something you didn't see over last 2 seasons (or 1.5).kitthehammer wrote: ↑Sat Dec 31, 2022 1:07 am Knew before we kicked a ball we’d lose and tbh it was another humiliation. Not by the scoreline but the fact brentford simply did the basics well and we are utterly appalling tactically. Just kept playing it a crescent from one full back to the other via central defence and rice and by which time brentford had got all of their defenders back.
No point in digging out individuals, it is the managers fault.
If we want any chance of staying up clean sheets need to be our top priority, and that may well mean getting Aguerd into the mix ASAP.
A clean sheet at least gives you a point ffs
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Re: West Ham United v Brentford: Match Thread
I didn't post last night as I was still too angry.
That second half was a relegation display. We had no clue, the players were not pressing, only Rice came out of it with any credit.
Moyes doesn't know what to do anymore. Ok I get changing shape by swapping Emerson for Antonio, it didn't work but I get why he did it. But that was the sum total of his ideas. Paquetá for Soucek on the 82nd minute was pointless. Yes Paquetá was playing badly, but what did he think Soucek was going to do to add to the attack? We had Lanzini and Fornals sitting on the bench, Pablo must be wondering what he has to do to get a game when he looks at the dross from the bench.
I think Moyes needs to go now, I don't say this lightly, I hate to see us sacking managers, but I really think he has run out of ideas and I can't see anything other than relegation this season. That bowl is going to be a very quiet empty place next season with less than 20,000 of us turning up for a midweek match against Rotheram.
That second half was a relegation display. We had no clue, the players were not pressing, only Rice came out of it with any credit.
Moyes doesn't know what to do anymore. Ok I get changing shape by swapping Emerson for Antonio, it didn't work but I get why he did it. But that was the sum total of his ideas. Paquetá for Soucek on the 82nd minute was pointless. Yes Paquetá was playing badly, but what did he think Soucek was going to do to add to the attack? We had Lanzini and Fornals sitting on the bench, Pablo must be wondering what he has to do to get a game when he looks at the dross from the bench.
I think Moyes needs to go now, I don't say this lightly, I hate to see us sacking managers, but I really think he has run out of ideas and I can't see anything other than relegation this season. That bowl is going to be a very quiet empty place next season with less than 20,000 of us turning up for a midweek match against Rotheram.
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Re: West Ham United v Brentford: Match Thread
Left it until this morning to make my comments.
Overall, and once again, I felt myself wondering how we conspired to lose that match. All too often this season we have played pretty well and been the better team only to walk away with no points. I agree with the Manager that box to box we were excellent. Some poor defending gifted them 2 goals (agsin) and in front of goal we had little good fortune and poor finishing. As Rice says, fine margins.
Posters have been crying out for changes in formation and we got that. Pleading for Paqueta to replace Soucek and we got that. Asking for the team to play on the front from the off and we got that.
I saw plenty of effort and determination from the players, so rumours of dressing room unrest seems boll*cks. Rice had a very good game, so suggestions his mind is elsewhere is also boll*cks.
I thought Rice, Paqueta, Coufal, Benrahma and Bowen had excellent games. Scamacca, not so good and Antonio (apart from his usual Clown moment) not so good. Fabianski's distribution is quite frankly awful and, in its way, increases our lack of decisiveness' speed of transition and general confidence. I would consider bringing in Areola just for that.
I understand the dissapointment and frustration, its only natural, but perspective is also required. Its not all crap, rubbish etc (and neither is he or they). Admittedly, its not good and worrying but its often changing the little things that make a big difference, not the big things.
Overall, and once again, I felt myself wondering how we conspired to lose that match. All too often this season we have played pretty well and been the better team only to walk away with no points. I agree with the Manager that box to box we were excellent. Some poor defending gifted them 2 goals (agsin) and in front of goal we had little good fortune and poor finishing. As Rice says, fine margins.
Posters have been crying out for changes in formation and we got that. Pleading for Paqueta to replace Soucek and we got that. Asking for the team to play on the front from the off and we got that.
I saw plenty of effort and determination from the players, so rumours of dressing room unrest seems boll*cks. Rice had a very good game, so suggestions his mind is elsewhere is also boll*cks.
I thought Rice, Paqueta, Coufal, Benrahma and Bowen had excellent games. Scamacca, not so good and Antonio (apart from his usual Clown moment) not so good. Fabianski's distribution is quite frankly awful and, in its way, increases our lack of decisiveness' speed of transition and general confidence. I would consider bringing in Areola just for that.
I understand the dissapointment and frustration, its only natural, but perspective is also required. Its not all crap, rubbish etc (and neither is he or they). Admittedly, its not good and worrying but its often changing the little things that make a big difference, not the big things.
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Re: West Ham United v Brentford: Match Thread
On an individual level, I'd say;
Fabianski - 7 - some good saves
Coufal - 6 - got forward a lot, slung crosses in that were reasonable quality - not his fault no one got on the end.
Cresswell - 4 - so bad for the goal; so, so, so, so bad.
Ogbonna - 6 - thought he added a level of calm, though it looks like time is catching up with him pace wise
Dawson - 6 - his usual rumbustious self, and we actually looked like we might score from a corner, unlucky with his early effort in particular
Emerson - 6 - thought he added pace, good effort on goal in the first half, bad decision to remove him and retain Cresswell.
Rice - 7 - all energy, lots of good moments.
Paqueta - 5 - thought he started well, but the game looked a bit quick for him after about 30 minutes. That said, he looks for passes others don't.
Bowen - 7 - thought he was busy and his direct running was our best hope second half.
Scamacca - 4 - a couple of nice lay offs in the first 15 minutes but never looked like scoring.
Benrahma - 5 - some eye catching dribbling early on, but not a lot at the end of them
Antonio - 4 - poor, ineffective.
Soucek - no rating not on long enough.
Fabianski - 7 - some good saves
Coufal - 6 - got forward a lot, slung crosses in that were reasonable quality - not his fault no one got on the end.
Cresswell - 4 - so bad for the goal; so, so, so, so bad.
Ogbonna - 6 - thought he added a level of calm, though it looks like time is catching up with him pace wise
Dawson - 6 - his usual rumbustious self, and we actually looked like we might score from a corner, unlucky with his early effort in particular
Emerson - 6 - thought he added pace, good effort on goal in the first half, bad decision to remove him and retain Cresswell.
Rice - 7 - all energy, lots of good moments.
Paqueta - 5 - thought he started well, but the game looked a bit quick for him after about 30 minutes. That said, he looks for passes others don't.
Bowen - 7 - thought he was busy and his direct running was our best hope second half.
Scamacca - 4 - a couple of nice lay offs in the first 15 minutes but never looked like scoring.
Benrahma - 5 - some eye catching dribbling early on, but not a lot at the end of them
Antonio - 4 - poor, ineffective.
Soucek - no rating not on long enough.
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Re: West Ham United v Brentford: Match Thread
We started well for about 15 minutes.
Moyes, Rice or any posts on here making out we were excellent are absurd. When did we really threaten? When did we do anything notable that wasn't pass-pass-stagnate on the channel-hopeless cross?
Gave up two pathetic, soft goals. The second being farcical to watch as Cresswell seemed to be running but going backwards instead of forwards.
There wasn't any point from about the half hour mark onwards where I expected us to score. And we didn't. We are sleepwalking towards relegation and make no mistake, it's coming. Our only hope is to do what we should have done months ago and sack the manager. Bring someone in with progressive and multiple methods suited to the players we have and hope for that bounce to clear us of relegation and make the Conference something we can still get excited about.
This is worse than Pellegrini and Bilic when you take into account the quality that some of our players have and the gross misuse of them.
Moyes, Rice or any posts on here making out we were excellent are absurd. When did we really threaten? When did we do anything notable that wasn't pass-pass-stagnate on the channel-hopeless cross?
Gave up two pathetic, soft goals. The second being farcical to watch as Cresswell seemed to be running but going backwards instead of forwards.
There wasn't any point from about the half hour mark onwards where I expected us to score. And we didn't. We are sleepwalking towards relegation and make no mistake, it's coming. Our only hope is to do what we should have done months ago and sack the manager. Bring someone in with progressive and multiple methods suited to the players we have and hope for that bounce to clear us of relegation and make the Conference something we can still get excited about.
This is worse than Pellegrini and Bilic when you take into account the quality that some of our players have and the gross misuse of them.
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Re: West Ham United v Brentford: Match Thread
Agree with that.
It's Pinky that's nicknamed him Porridge because of it.
You can add Cresswell's relentlessly negative passing and inability to move the ball onto his right foot to that issue, along with players taking extra touches before releasing crosses, with Benrahma's desire to cut back and beat the same player six times also on the list of stodginessabounds.
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Re: West Ham United v Brentford: Match Thread
He didn't change his tactics though. Sit on the touchline and cross the ball into the box. Even if there's no one there to do anything with it. Plan A,B, C and Z.Ironing Board wrote: ↑Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:09 pm I dont think you can say he didn’t try to change things tonight. He played 3-2-4-1, tries Paq and Rice, threw on Emerson and slung in Oggy. Conceding that goal allowed Brentford to sit back and just defend and shithouse for the rest of the game. The second was the cherry on top.
Re: West Ham United v Brentford: Match Thread
Completely agree. Surely it's time for everyone to agree that Cresswell is a hindrance to the team with his constant negative "passes" where he either goes backwards, sideways to Rice or bottles it and kicks long, which always seems to go off for a throw in. If its not him it's Kehrer who is a mistake leading to a goal, every game!
Rice seems to be demanding the ball all the time but he has to be told he hasn't got the talent compared to Paqueta who is head and shoulders above Rice is terms of technical skills. A good coach would see that and insist that Rice does the tackling and get Paqueta on the ball more, but it's like he is scared to tell Rice off!?
The defence is like the keystone cops, the midfield is all over the place with no leadership or formation and the forwards are so predictable, with Bowen always cutting in and Benny taking an age to get 10 yards!
Moyes has to go now to give any new manager a chance with the January window. Every day we stand still, means another game with no points and games running out.
Rice seems to be demanding the ball all the time but he has to be told he hasn't got the talent compared to Paqueta who is head and shoulders above Rice is terms of technical skills. A good coach would see that and insist that Rice does the tackling and get Paqueta on the ball more, but it's like he is scared to tell Rice off!?
The defence is like the keystone cops, the midfield is all over the place with no leadership or formation and the forwards are so predictable, with Bowen always cutting in and Benny taking an age to get 10 yards!
Moyes has to go now to give any new manager a chance with the January window. Every day we stand still, means another game with no points and games running out.
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Re: West Ham United v Brentford: Match Thread
No need to worry Coops. Rotherham will be in league 1 next season. They're dropping down the table as fast as us.Coops wrote: ↑Sat Dec 31, 2022 9:50 am I didn't post last night as I was still too angry.
That second half was a relegation display. We had no clue, the players were not pressing, only Rice came out of it with any credit.
Moyes doesn't know what to do anymore. Ok I get changing shape by swapping Emerson for Antonio, it didn't work but I get why he did it. But that was the sum total of his ideas. Paquetá for Soucek on the 82nd minute was pointless. Yes Paquetá was playing badly, but what did he think Soucek was going to do to add to the attack? We had Lanzini and Fornals sitting on the bench, Pablo must be wondering what he has to do to get a game when he looks at the dross from the bench.
I think Moyes needs to go now, I don't say this lightly, I hate to see us sacking managers, but I really think he has run out of ideas and I can't see anything other than relegation this season. That bowl is going to be a very quiet empty place next season with less than 20,000 of us turning up for a midweek match against Rotheram.
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Re: West Ham United v Brentford: Match Thread
I thought last night that if Rice's shot had gone in instead of hitting the post we would of gone on to win that game because Brentford were not doing very much,trouble is once they score we don't have the confidence to handle it.
If we can get our defence settled and buy someone in January so that we can actually play through the middle instead of going out wide all the time
we might be able to start to pick up a few points.
If we can get our defence settled and buy someone in January so that we can actually play through the middle instead of going out wide all the time
we might be able to start to pick up a few points.
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Re: West Ham United v Brentford: Match Thread
Genuinely thought Paqueta was our best player for large parts of that. There were simple passes he made that none of our midfielders do. The only passes Dec makes that cut out more than one man are his floated passes out to the right, where Vlad is basically tasked with making something out of whatever situation he’s forced into.
His defensive work was pretty decent, too. He looked no less unfit than Rice, to me, who was running back through treacle at times. Numbers show he made more tackles and clearances.
We missed a man ahead of the midfield base. There was no one to receive his passes. It was only Scamacca, and he tuned out after 15 minutes, probably tired of watching crosses go nowhere near him or float aimlessly above his head for him to barely be able to get onto. Not a real excuse, but you can understand his lack of desire. Needed Fornals.
His defensive work was pretty decent, too. He looked no less unfit than Rice, to me, who was running back through treacle at times. Numbers show he made more tackles and clearances.
We missed a man ahead of the midfield base. There was no one to receive his passes. It was only Scamacca, and he tuned out after 15 minutes, probably tired of watching crosses go nowhere near him or float aimlessly above his head for him to barely be able to get onto. Not a real excuse, but you can understand his lack of desire. Needed Fornals.
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Re: West Ham United v Brentford: Match Thread
Our problem with that formation yesterday was completely lacking in anyone in advanced central areas. The wingbacks (especially the right hand side) didn't get forward enough which meant the wide forwards couldn't tuck in and Scamacca was isolated.
When the formation worked for us, we either had Antonio dropping deep with Bowen getting ahead of him or we had Fornals behind a two of Bowen and Antonio.
The biggest positive change we could have made is to put someone in that position, whether it be bringing Fornals on or moving Benrahma central.
We were forced to go wide due to the cavernous gap between Rice/Paqueta and Scamacca.
When the formation worked for us, we either had Antonio dropping deep with Bowen getting ahead of him or we had Fornals behind a two of Bowen and Antonio.
The biggest positive change we could have made is to put someone in that position, whether it be bringing Fornals on or moving Benrahma central.
We were forced to go wide due to the cavernous gap between Rice/Paqueta and Scamacca.
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Re: West Ham United v Brentford: Match Thread
There were also multiple moments where the players were pressing in different areas to each other. There didn’t look to be any structure or plan on how to press. The crowd had to basically shout Benrahma into doing it late on, after Scamacca had started to, looked around and seen no one else was looking to put the defence under any pressure. It was in the last 10 minutes and we still reverted to type. When Benny did make the move, Brentford immediately passed it off.
They’ve not been coached to do those things as a unit, and I fear sometimes that the manager doesn’t coach the attack at all.
They’ve not been coached to do those things as a unit, and I fear sometimes that the manager doesn’t coach the attack at all.
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Re: West Ham United v Brentford: Match Thread
For all the talk of trying something different in the first half, it boiled down to just an alternative formation for getting the ball to Cresswell or Coufal to cross it to an imaginary Andy Carroll. No going through the middle, no passing between the lines, not even passing down the side of the penalty area for a cutback. Nope, just hoof it in from the wing like we've done for every other game we've lost.