⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers 1-0 West Ham Utd (14/1/23)

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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Pete647580 »

the pink palermo wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 2:15 pm JBB, I pointed out two days ago Rice was in the wrong position altogether, doing the wrong job when the corner kick was taken.

In recent weeks we have seen him taking the corners, it's almost as if he wants to do anything but be a proper DM.

In fairness to him, it just might be that the coaching staff are telling him to do what he currently is, in which case, fire the lot of them.
There's a harsh interpretation of Rice's behaviour: he doesn't want to be a proper DM. And there's a kinder interpretation: we're failing all over the pitch and he's trying to add some quality everywhere. Personally I don't think he should be in the opposition box at all - he rarely adds value there, and I'd rather Aguerd stayed back too, but I'm inclined to suspect Rice is singlehandedly trying to win every game for us.
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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by the pink palermo »

Pete647580 wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:15 pm There's a harsh interpretation of Rice's behaviour: he doesn't want to be a proper DM. And there's a kinder interpretation: we're failing all over the pitch and he's trying to add some quality everywhere. Personally I don't think he should be in the opposition box at all - he rarely adds value there, and I'd rather Aguerd stayed back too, but I'm inclined to suspect Rice is singlehandedly trying to win every game for us.
I'm sure you are right, he seems a good pro, but the burden of Captaincy drives him towards what you are suggesting.

The problem being, if he is supposed to be a DM, it's a very specific job, and if he doesn't do it, the team gets punished. It's a position requiring self sacrifice and discipline.
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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Doc H Ball »

All getting a bit Joey Cole circa 2003.

People need to lay off Rice.
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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by MB »

Doc H Ball wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:14 pm All getting a bit Joey Cole circa 2003.

People need to lay off Rice.
10 bookings that season as he tried to do just about everything!
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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

Doc H Ball wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:14 pm All getting a bit Joey Cole circa 2003.

People need to lay off Rice.
Absolutely they do.
Ridiculous IMHO
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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by the pink palermo »

Crouchend_Hammer wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:22 pm Absolutely they do.
Ridiculous IMHO
Who is getting stuck into him?

This is the match thread for a single game ,a discussion has taken place concerning his positioning for the goal we conceded.

Same as Scamacca has been discussed for missing a sitter, same as Benny has been discussed for not squaring a ball to Antonio ......

Legitimate, fair criticisms in a match thread, surely?

Or did we just drop points due to Moyes tactics?
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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Doc H Ball »

the pink palermo wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:32 pm Who is getting stuck into him?
Personally I wasn’t referring to on here, more the chatter. All this, well he’s not that good anyway / he’s not a real West Ham fan / he’s ruined us by playing box to box etc and all with a complete amnesia as to how we ended up here.
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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

Fair but RiRice's role in the goal is negligble unless you expect him to try and make a tackle in their box, get up and then make up 20 yards on everybody else who have a standing start

He isn't Usain Bolt so had no chance of getting back.

It was 4 on 2 in our favour and they managed to score
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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by the pink palermo »

Crouchend_Hammer wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:38 pm Fair but RiRice's role in the goal is negligble unless you expect him to try and make a tackle in their box, get up and then make up 20 yards on everybody else who have a standing start

He isn't Usain Bolt so had no chance of getting back.

It was 4 on 2 in our favour and they managed to score
:smiler:

None of that actually. I would have expected him to be 5 yards off the edge of the D, centrally positioned , when the corner kick was taken.

That's if he was tasked as the DM.

I have put in the caveat to my posts referring to what the coaching staff are asking him to do, as opposed to what I think he should be doing, i.e. the job of a DM.

So, no, nobody is getting stuck into him on this thread. Legitimate questions.

Put another way, were he in an England shirt, we all know exactly where he would be stood when the corner kick was taken, we all know he would have been there to prevent the opposition breaking out.
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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by the pink palermo »

Doc H Ball wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:36 pm Personally I wasn’t referring to on here, more the chatter. All this, well he’s not that good anyway / he’s not a real West Ham fan / he’s ruined us by playing box to box etc and all with a complete amnesia as to how we ended up here.
Unfortunately Doc he's going to cop some flak when he goes, all the good ones do.

We only get hurt by being rejected by the ones we love, the ones we know will go on to better things, winning trophies, leaving little old West Ham behind.

The greater the love, the more it hurts, and the more people react.
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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

Centre backs are the last line of defence but get in the box for corners so no reason why a tall DM shouldn't either. Same as Soucek
Ddclan Rice was also in opposition box for corners for England as he always is. He doesnt sit outside the box for them either.
The reason is because he is pretty tall and one of our better headers of the ball.

We had Fornals on edge of box, Cresswell and Coufal on half way line. Paquetta was the player who probably shouldn't have been in thr box as he is short.

Two CBs, two CMs and our Striker. Nothing over the top with that many players attacking q corner.

We had plenty enough back to deal with the break but Cresswel and Cpufal were all over the place
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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by simon hammer »

the pink palermo wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:32 pm
Or did we just drop points due to Moyes tactics?
There are many who will happily suggest that to be the case.

I'm not one of them.

There are a multitude of reasons as to why we didn't win, as there always are.
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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Burnley Hammer »

Ironing Board wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 3:33 pm It wasn’t meant to be. But his passing was poor and he was pretty much anonymous. There have been other games where he wasn’t great where he at least got involved a lot.
Poor... but according to the pass completion stats, better than Soucek, Rice, Bowen, Fornals, and Antonio.

They are all underperforming.
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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by the pink palermo »

Crouchend_Hammer wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:51 pm We had plenty enough back to deal with the break
It may have escaped your attention, but clearly we didn't.
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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

Crouchend_Hammer wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:51 pm Centre backs are the last line of defence but get in the box for corners so no reason why a tall DM shouldn't either. Same as Soucek
Ddclan Rice was also in opposition box for corners for England as he always is. He doesnt sit outside the box for them either.
The reason is because he is pretty tall and one of our better headers of the ball.

We had Fornals on edge of box, Cresswell and Coufal on half way line. Paquetta was the player who probably shouldn't have been in thr box as he is short.

Two CBs, two CMs and our Striker. Nothing over the top with that many players attacking q corner.

We had plenty enough back to deal with the break but Cresswel and Cpufal were all over the place
Regardless of exactly who should have stayed back, there clearly weren't enough. Is it part of the captain's job to spot and rectify things like that?
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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Doc H Ball »

the pink palermo wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:49 pm Unfortunately Doc he's going to cop some flak when he goes, all the good ones do.
I’ve found everything since the final whistle on Saturday so depressing. Even my Malbec and Sunday roast at one of the finest eateries in Essex tasted like ****.

Meanwhile, the bloke with a few hundred million in his pocket who willingly sacrifices the club to avoid tax sits there. Boils my ****ing piss.
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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by jabbaglob123 »

Doc H Ball wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:01 pm I’ve found everything since the final whistle on Saturday so depressing. Even my Malbec and Sunday roast at one of the finest eateries in Essex tasted like ****.

Meanwhile, the bloke with a few hundred million in his pocket who willingly sacrifices the club to avoid tax sits there. Boils my ****ing piss.
Sorry I spat my drink out in laughter at the following sentence 'one of the finest eateries in Essex' :lol:
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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

bit simplistic but when I was coaching, admittedly within the youth ranks, I ALWAYS had two players on the edge of the "D" in case a ball popped out so that we could win a loose ball.

then at least TWO players on the halfway line in case the other team broke out. and one more halfway between the box and the 2 players on the halfway line for the counter.

as I say, only youth soccer and we rarely won a header in the box, but there were times when we won the "cleared" ball, the player halfway was a safety valve that we could play to were there not a good chance to put another ball into the box and/or play back to one of the two on or around the halfway line.

I mentioned somewhere else maybe early in the match thread that I was concerned about the number of chances we gave to the opposition from our own corners. directly or indirectly.

wish I'd have done the lottery this past weekend.
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Re: ⚽ Wolverhampton Wanderers v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

the pink palermo wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:54 pm It may have escaped your attention, but clearly we didn't.
Yes we did
The fact they scored doesn't mean we didn't have enough players back
It wasn't like Salah a couple of years ago when we were overloaded

When the Wolves player had the ball there was onlky Jiminez and Podence ahead of him. We had Coufal, Cresswell and Soucek, plus Bowen coming from the side. The numbers were in our favour but we Cresswell and Coufal wre all over the shop

Would we have defended the break better if we had more players back? of course, but then we probably shouldn't send CBs forward either so we make sure we don't concede
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