⚽ West Ham Utd 2-0 Everton (21/1/23)

Relive every moment of every first team game since the beginning of the 2005/06 season. Our archive of matchday threads originally posted in the General Discussion Forum.

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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by Kentish Hammer »

Ozza wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:18 am Yup im feeling sorry for FF this morning too, actually sounds like he cares, regardless of how much money he earns or has, failing in a job is devastating
I don't. I remember him goading the away fans after they beat us at Goodison and am therefore sitting back and smiling smugly.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by Ozza »

I hear ya
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by 1895Hammer »

Bubbles Fortuna wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:52 pm The point people are making is that we looked much better finally having our first choice defenders on the pitch. Even you must be able to admit that.

No one is saying we should ignore the first 18 games which have clearly not been good enough.
Bang on. I’m in the Twist camp, albeit with some reluctance, and yesterday isn’t enough enough to change that, not yet anyway. We shouldn’t be in trouble, but there’s no way any team performs to full potential without it’s best defenders, see Liverpool & VVD. Aguerd is a CL level defender, and the difference the 3 cbs made yesterday was huge, the whole side played 10 yards further forward, and we actually saw a purpose for Emerson, who’s not that bad as a wing back. Against better sides than Everton Oggys lack of pace would get exposed, so ideally Kehrer gets his act together at rcb, his best position, or we find another cb, but even if not those 3 form a base that transforms the shape and sees us comfortably mid table. Add a proper right side wing back ( just not Vlad’s ideal role despite playing ok yesterday) and sort the striker role ( how it’s played rather than who it is) and we can return to being challengers. Apart from the silly spell in the second half there were signs of some of the old desire and aggression yesterday, with the ball moved far quicker ( Bubbles so right in Fabianski comment) let’s use Derby to build confidence with a full strength side and go into the 3 games with Newcastle Chelsea and Spurs in a different mindset, hopefully boosted by a couple more signings. As a few have said” one swallow” etc, very true, but yesterday was pivotal and we won.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by S-H »

ExeC wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:03 am Aged like milk :rofl:

Went to the game, full house, still quiet but for good reason.

I feel though this felt a little more like Everton were FAR worse than a poor West Ham side which is saying something!

Backline does look better and Agueard is mustard!

Hopefully Bowen gets the confidence now that he needs!
Good edit :)
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by alf git »

steps wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:16 am
I actually felt a bit sorry for Lampard btw.
Hope he's not comfort eating 🤭
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by S-H »

There's a video of him doing the rounds, he looks emotionally broken, all jokes and rivalry aside, on a human level, management clearly takes it's toll mentally on an individual, I don't wish to see anyone struggling as Frank clearly is in said video.

Maybe a break from the game will do him good, if and when it comes
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by NWhammer »

1895Hammer wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:35 am Bang on. I’m in the Twist camp, albeit with some reluctance, and yesterday isn’t enough enough to change that, not yet anyway.
Great post and completely right in what you’re saying about other teams suffering with injuries.

My question is, knowing the replacement for Moyes is likely to be Benitez does that change your mind on giving Moyes more time?

I can understand, even after yesterdays performance, people wanting to change if the likely option was a Tuchel or someone of that calibre, but swapping what we saw yesterday in terms of a team fighting for their manager and the club, there’s no chance I’m swapping that for Benitez.
Last edited by NWhammer on Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by Ozza »

S-H wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:45 am There's a video of him doing the rounds, he looks emotionally broken, all jokes and rivalry aside, on a human level, management clearly takes it's toll mentally on an individual, I don't wish to see anyone struggling as Frank clearly is in said video.

Maybe a break from the game will do him good, if and when it comes
How i see it as well mate
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by Bond Holder 59 »

NWhammer wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:45 am Great post and completely right in what you’re saying about other teams suffering with injuries.

My question is, knowing the replacement for Moyes is likely to be Benitez does that change your mind on giving Moyes more time?

I can understand even after yesterdays performance people wanting to change if the likely option was a Tuchel or someone of that calibre, but swapping what we saw yesterday in terms of a team fighting for their manager and the club, there’s no chance I’m swapping that for Benitez.
This hits the target🎯

Whilst I’m 60% keep Moyes, I cannot think of a replacement that is better, and likely to be interested. For example, look at the betting for the Everton job, or Southampton. Not saying we are directly comparable, but that’s the list of ‘likely available’. I suggest it’s only the sh*& six who can nick an ‘unavailable’ good manager (i.e. Potter).

So if we remove Moyes would we limp on until season end with Nolan?

Finally, Moyes has much to improve, but I cannot forget the Fergie one defeat from the sack anecdote, and then look what happened.

🤔
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by wizzo_66 »

I must be in the minority in thinking our back 3 was a comedy trio.

Zouma struggling to walk let alone run. Can see why he couldn't play in a pair at the moment. He'd be destroyed. Ogbonna showing his age and not being able to get set. Aguerd is rolls royce and is deserving of a proper partner in a back 4.

The back 3 worked against Everton because it matched them up and they are absolutely terrible. Our midfield 2 of Rice and Paqueta would not survive against Newcastle so Moyes ought to be thinking how it needs to change.

The frustrating thing is Emerson looks so much more comfortable in this system but it is terrible in too many other ways. Trying to build up play with 3 and 4 players in your own half is impossible. It was a hard watch.

A blinding Antonio performance in wide areas, Bowen continuing to work hard and getting his break and Benrahma lifting the team with moments got us over the line.

Delighted with the 3 points but I thought they were for us to take from Everton who were diabolical.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by MB »

wizzo_66 wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:01 am Delighted with the 3 points but I thought they were for us to take from Everton who were diabolical.
Leaving out the tactical stuff as it has been done to death.

I understand the statement above but how many times this season has it been there for the taking and we haven't taken the three points?

You've got to look at the performance relative to similar situations this season rather than the best this squad is capable of which hopefully we will see at some point.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by 1895Hammer »

NWhammer wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:45 am Great post and completely right in what you’re saying about other teams suffering with injuries.

My question is, knowing the replacement for Moyes is likely to be Benitez does that change your mind on giving Moyes more time?

I can understand, even after yesterdays performance, people wanting to change if the likely option was a Tuchel or someone of that calibre, but swapping what we saw yesterday in terms of a team fighting for their manager and the club, there’s no chance I’m swapping that for Benitez.
Reflecting on the post World Cup games I do think he’s trying to change things, and getting key men like Aguerd back will accelerate that. We won’t get Poch or Tuchel, and I don’t think Rafa offers anything new apart from a change of face, although sometimes that’s a spark. Think they have to stop the ridiculous “ game by game “ nonsense, we should have enough now to climb to around halfway by May, so here’s my view for what’s it’s worth.
Keep Moyes in role this season, but in the summer bring in a younger progressive coach in the style of Corboran, Kompany or the Brighton guy, giving Moyes a new 2 year deal to finally sort the structure out, that’s revamping Rush Green, building the scouting network, and ensuring we compete for top youth talent world wide, in other words full bore Red Bull model. No idea if he’d take that but his experience and methodology make him ideal, Noble to work with him on that and wider “ player culture” as he learns the ropes. Now that may all be far too progressive for Sully, but I’m sure as a business model investing first then being rewarded would make sense to someone like Kretinsky or any ambitious takeover consortium.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by wizzo_66 »

MB wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:27 am Leaving out the tactical stuff as it has been done to death.

I understand the statement above but how many times this season has it been there for the taking and we haven't taken the three points?

You've got to look at the performance relative to similar situations this season rather than the best this squad is capable of which hopefully we will see at some point.
Yep its a fair point - at least we were able to take advantage. But with this squad I have come to expect more than just winning games against terrible sides that turn up and play poorly against us. I'm not adjusting those expectations. I think we should continue to demand more and not settle for just beating a team we ought to.

But yes, for now. Happy days at least its a weekend win!
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

wizzo_66 wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:01 am I must be in the minority in thinking our back 3 was a comedy trio.
Agree with all of that Wizzo

A back 5 is not the way forward for me, and it was mostly a back five yesterday

No decent teams play that formation except Spurs and they all want to ditch it.

It served a purpose against Everton but we will be overrun against anyone half decent

In the short term take out one of the CBs and bring Fornals or Downes into the middle qnd play Emerson or Ben Johnson at LB

The best part of yesterday were the front three were not so fixed. Antonio moved around a lot and Benny and Bowen played more central instead of hugging the touchline
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by Burnley Hammer »

Crouchend_Hammer wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:46 am The best part of yesterday were the front three were not so fixed. Antonio moved around a lot and Benny and Bowen played more central instead of hugging the touchline
Yep I agree - they played more like a pair of number 10's supporting the striker and it suited them far more.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by MB »

Crouchend_Hammer wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:46 am It served a purpose against Everton but we will be overrun against anyone half decent
That's good because we are far from decent at the moment and it seems to be the only way we can keep a clean sheet! Horses for courses.

Nice on paper to go to a 433, but Moyes, Rafa or any of the other short term options we've been linked with would bring in Soucek if we drop a centre back and that looks worse at the moment than playing 5 at the back.

What enabled the front three to do that was a higher line at the back which was a direct result of the formation. We aren't going to see that in a 433 under this manager or probably any manager who comes in and who would laugh at our full back options.

The formation yesterday isn't perfect but it suits more of our better players than any 4 at the back system which a reasonable manager would play.

I wouldn't want 5 ATB longer term but we need some serious recruitment (imo) to move to the kind of system you want to see.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by Hammer.CA »

Bond Holder 59 wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 2:05 am James Millsy…hang your head in shame.

Everything I despise in social media evident in one post.

If I was 60 years younger I would send you a stiff letter.
🥸
Taking the 60 years into consideration, just send the bloke a letter without mentioning the stiff part.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by Tezza65 »

Alan Pardew's Dad wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 12:25 am Yes he is. I’d rather him as our manager than any of our relegation rivals managers.
Personally,I think with the quality of players we have,we should be nowhere near down there.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by 1895Hammer »

MB wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:55 am That's good because we are far from decent at the moment and it seems to be the only way we can keep a clean sheet! Horses for courses.

Nice on paper to go to a 433, but Moyes, Rafa or any of the other short term options we've been linked with would bring in Soucek if we drop a centre back and that looks worse at the moment than playing 5 at the back.

What enabled the front three to do that was a higher line at the back which was a direct result of the formation. We aren't going to see that in a 433 under this manager or probably any manager who comes in and who would laugh at our full back options.

The formation yesterday isn't perfect but it suits more of our better players than any 4 at the back system which a reasonable manager would play.

I wouldn't want 5 ATB longer term but we need some serious recruitment (imo) to move to the kind of system you want to see.
If we had a more mobile 3rd cb than Oggy and a better rwb / wide midfielder I actually think 343 suits the players we have with minimal recruitment. As previously Kehrer “ should” be the rcb, meaning we need a new rwb, with Bowen, Benny Ings and Cornet all capable of playing as forwards tighter to the main striker. It only becomes 5 at the back under pressure because the natural tendency for the wide midfielder / wing backs is forward momentum.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Everton: match thread

Post by master »

Except when those wide midfielders/wingbacks are naturally fullbacks, which is when they tend to just drop deeper and deeper.
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