Summer 2023/24 Transfer Thread

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Liam
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Liam »

How about Palhinha from Fulham as a Dec replacement? (base on nothing other than third party reports that he's been playing well).
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Liam »

Believer wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:31 pm I’d suggest theory 2 is more likely.

Moyes probably means…

“I wanted a No10 and was given Paqueta. The club told me he was a No10 and based on his goals and assists, I thought I’d run with it”

I’d agree that a No10 will be his priority in the summer. He will go with Paqueta and Downes and won’t try and sign a Rice replacement
Moyes isn't really that keen on playing a 10 though is he?

we are currently playing a 3-4-2-1 with the 2 being wide forwards.

even when we go to a 4-3-3 he seems reluctant.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by MB »

Aztec Hammer wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:46 pm Would be a dreadful thing to see.

What is a Moyes striker? If it's 'someone like Michail Antonio', that's a problem.
Depends who comes in. If we aren’t going to have runners around and getting beyond Scamacca then we may as well trade him in for someone more suited to Moyes* style even if that is a younger Antonio who by default will probably have better control etc given the differ in coaching to even ten years ago.

I’m a bit fed up of X is a good player we should bend over backwards to get the best out of them. Pick an approach, recruit the best players you can for that approach rinse and repeat. If any in the current squad don5 really fit then move them on. We seem to start our recruitment with the best players available to us then try and work backwards. It doesn’t work and just sees us waste money, especially if we don’t cut our losses when we really should.

*other managers are available.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Burnley Hammer »

westlondonhammer wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:34 pm Probably worth striking Terrier off the list

Long term injury and may not be the same player when he returns
Ok... so I have a list of 1 then.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Aztec Hammer »

MB wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:08 pm Depends who comes in. If we aren’t going to have runners around and getting beyond Scamacca then we may as well trade him in for someone more suited to Moyes* style even if that is a younger Antonio who by default will probably have better control etc given the differ in coaching to even ten years ago.

I’m a bit fed up of X is a good player we should bend over backwards to get the best out of them. Pick an approach, recruit the best players you can for that approach rinse and repeat. If any in the current squad don5 really fit then move them on. We seem to start our recruitment with the best players available to us then try and work backwards. It doesn’t work and just sees us waste money, especially if we don’t cut our losses when we really should.

*other managers are available.
I'm fed up of big money player signs and then the manager doesn't know how to use them so they are shipped off quickly.

Seb Haller has been a goal machine wherever he has played except for us. But still showed obvious quality. Scamacca going the same way would just be tedious. Especially if it's so that we can get someone like Antonio to do a unique job up top whilst not scoring much. Just use the big money strikers in a way that gets the best out of them and the team. That's your job.

You can even look at signings like Vlasic and if we're not careful, Paqueta.

If we can't figure out how to use our more expensive signings properly, that's a manager problem for me. I don't want to solve that by forgoing signing that level of player and signing a lesser talent just because the manager is more comfortable using them. And to be specific, I'm talking about mostly up front having that striker with ungodly strength who can deal with hoofs out at the channel and/or the lump in central mid like Soucek/Fellaini instead of a technical talent comfortable with having the ball.

Thankfully, Scamacca has not been sold and at the moment, it appears Paqueta is liked by Moyes and Soucek has been dropped, so that's a good sign. In fact I'd even have extended my argument to someone like Cresswell being favoured over Emerson, but again, the latter is now starting and Cress has thankfully hit the bench.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by MB »

That is a problem as well but it is a bigger problem than the manager. We all know Sullivan likes an ego signing, especially upfront.

The whole structure of the club needs to change so that we don’t have to have these debates. We sign the right player for the style we want to play whether that is £50m or £5m. Ideally someone good enough and technical enough to adapt.

Not flipping from one extreme to the other in our management appointments would be nice too.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by westlondonhammer »

Burnley Hammer wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:13 pm Ok... so I have a list of 1 then.
If you need a hand on lists I know a man who is an expert at them...
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by westlondonhammer »

RE Scamacca... he's part of the puzzle for me and needs to be given a chance in the set up / team we are currently seeing.

I'd be loathed to make any real judgements until he is given time to play in a stable team that includes Aguerd, Ogbonna and Emerson in there.

3 weeks ago Emerson was widely being written off... and now people are a lot more positive about him. Even after 1 game opinions have shifted marginally about Kehrer. Opinions have improved on Paqueta too. Antonio and Bowen have seen an improvement in recent games too.

I would hope to see similar shifts in performance when Scamacca is set up more to succeed rather than fail. Cornet would also be a nice addition to a team with him in but we still seem to be far away from that.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by hammer1975 »

MB wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:53 pm That is a problem as well but it is a bigger problem than the manager. We all know Sullivan likes an ego signing, especially upfront.

The whole structure of the club needs to change so that we don’t have to have these debates. We sign the right player for the style we want to play whether that is £50m or £5m. Ideally someone good enough and technical enough to adapt.

Not flipping from one extreme to the other in our management appointments would be nice too.
This 100%
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Ironing Board »

westlondonhammer wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:08 pm RE Scamacca... he's part of the puzzle for me and needs to be given a chance in the set up / team we are currently seeing.

I'd be loathed to make any real judgements until he is given time to play in a stable team that includes Aguerd, Ogbonna and Emerson in there.

3 weeks ago Emerson was widely being written off... and now people are a lot more positive about him. Even after 1 game opinions have shifted marginally about Kehrer. Opinions have improved on Paqueta too. Antonio and Bowen have seen an improvement in recent games too.

I would hope to see similar shifts in performance when Scamacca is set up more to succeed rather than fail. Cornet would also be a nice addition to a team with him in but we still seem to be far away from that.
Given he was talking about a 10, Maybe Moyes can use Scamacca as a Sutton-esque 10 with Ings as a 9?
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by MB »

westlondonhammer wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:08 pm RE Scamacca... he's part of the puzzle for me and needs to be given a chance in the set up / team we are currently seeing.

I'd be loathed to make any real judgements until he is given time to play in a stable team that includes Aguerd, Ogbonna and Emerson in there.

3 weeks ago Emerson was widely being written off... and now people are a lot more positive about him. Even after 1 game opinions have shifted marginally about Kehrer. Opinions have improved on Paqueta too. Antonio and Bowen have seen an improvement in recent games too.

I would hope to see similar shifts in performance when Scamacca is set up more to succeed rather than fail. Cornet would also be a nice addition to a team with him in but we still seem to be far away from that.
I don’t think anyone wrote off Emerson as a wingback. They (I) questioned whether he is good enough defensively to play left back which is a whole different point.

Agreed we need to see more of Scamacca in this more fluid front three before drawing conclusions. Merely based on what I’ve seen if you offered me a reset I’d probably take it. Ditto with Paqueta. I’m sure we’ll see more from both, but £80m worth?
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Burnley Hammer »

I do think Scamacca would be at his best dropping deeper and feeding others. What we need is quality wide forwards. They're the ones that are failing to deliver.

How about Lookman? Seems to have suddenly found that end product this season and knocking them in for fun. Knows the league. He's quick, runs at defenders. What we need?
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Gsbgsb »

If Scamacca is a “false” 10 then you need a runner who knows where the goal is from the midfield as well as the strikers if we are playing a 4. Might work with a 3-4-1-2 with him as the 1.

Thing is we lost Cornet. I am sure Moyes saw him and Bowen as supporting Scamacca this year and either an inform Fornals or another recruit for the midfield. We could not get the ideal midfielder so upgraded Soucek instead.

The injury to Cornet has affected our attack as much as Aguerd has the defence.

Style going forward was changed this summer. If we survive next summer will see it being perfected.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by westlondonhammer »

MB wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:02 pm I don’t think anyone wrote off Emerson as a wingback. They (I) questioned whether he is good enough defensively to play left back which is a whole different point.

Agreed we need to see more of Scamacca in this more fluid front three before drawing conclusions. Merely based on what I’ve seen if you offered me a reset I’d probably take it. Ditto with Paqueta. I’m sure we’ll see more from both, but £80m worth?
You may not have...quite a few certainly did.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by hammer1975 »

MB wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:02 pm I don’t think anyone wrote off Emerson as a wingback. They (I) questioned whether he is good enough defensively to play left back which is a whole different point.

Agreed we need to see more of Scamacca in this more fluid front three before drawing conclusions. Merely based on what I’ve seen if you offered me a reset I’d probably take it. Ditto with Paqueta. I’m sure we’ll see more from both, but £80m worth?
Agree with this.

It will be interesting to see if there are any unexpected outs this summer (assuming we stay up). Whether that be stylistically or because some players joined expecting us to be battling for European football. Paqueta and Scamacca fall into that bracket. Wouldn’t be surprised to see either move on tbh. Obviously would prefer them both kicking on in the remainder of the season and smashing it.

Regarding Emerson - he’s looked decent at left wingback. If we are going to persist with 3-4-3 we will need goals and assists from those wide roles though - be interesting to see if he brings that to the side in the remaining games. I still tend to us needing better options on both sides if we see this as our long term formation.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Believer »

Liam wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:07 pm Moyes isn't really that keen on playing a 10 though is he?

we are currently playing a 3-4-2-1 with the 2 being wide forwards.

even when we go to a 4-3-3 he seems reluctant.
True - yet, if he was, he has Fornals who I reckon would be fantastic there..
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Burnley Hammer »

Assuming that we stick with the current system which has brought improvement, and assuming we tweak it slightly so that our striker is playing a deeper role and our wingers are playing more as wide forwards (I don't think we were far off doing that against Newcastle), and, finally, assuming everyone was fit...

Image

A lot of assumptions.

Whether Cornet is the missing link in that front three remains to be seen. His proposed impact is purely hypothetical at the moment. Scamacca has still to properly settle into the role and the injuries he's picked up haven't helped. Despite this, he still has our best goals per 90 mins ratio. Bowen is still on thin ice for me. He's had a 2 game purple patch but still needs to do so much more. The same can be said of Fornals and Benrahma - neither of who I feel should be played as a wide forward. It's very likely that Rice could be off in the summer. Coufal has shown great work defensively but he's not comfortable or quick enough on the ball to be a true wingback. With Kehrer, the jury is either still out, or has already passed a negative verdict depending on who you are. Our two back up central midfielders - Downes and Soucek - would struggle to slot into this system imo. They currently lack the required attributes. They're players you'd bring on later in the game when you drop deep and defend the scoreline.

There's quite a number of improvements / tweaks that could be made there both in terms of the first team, and in terms of backups. That's if we stick with this system as a primary setup. I kind of hope we do as I think it's looking nicely balanced at the moment.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by yakandyeti »

Creswell hasn’t lost good place to Emerson, he’s lost it too Nathan.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Wilko1304 »

If we’re to play this system, we need two wing backs, although Emerson is perfectly serviceable for another year if we are spreading the money thin.

But a 3-4-3 needs wing backs that will produce in the final third, which is why Kostic was targeted. At the very least, the right side would need to do that to open up the left side as more of a supportive one.

If we want a four, it’s two full backs.

We definitely need a left winger, and maybe a 10. Cornet is the type for LW, but we’d be mugs to rely on him now. 10 is dependent on system, and whilst Benny and Fornals are both good enough options, the current manager doesn’t seem to.

I’d prefer we went 4-3-3 and used the very suitable players we have for it, but again, not one Moyes seems to fancy.

Scamacca, well, I don’t know. If he isn’t going to work hard and chase down more, I don’t see it working. I think he did more when he started with us, so it’s possibly a mental thing and he’s demotivated.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Burnley Hammer »

Wilko1304 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:01 pm Scamacca, well, I don’t know. If he isn’t going to work hard and chase down more, I don’t see it working. I think he did more when he started with us, so it’s possibly a mental thing and he’s demotivated.
To be fair, the whole team looked a little jaded and demotivated around that period. It was only the Leeds game where we suddenly started to find a bit of intensity again.
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