ULEZ

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Hummer_I_mean_Hammer
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Re: ULEZ

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

westham,eggyandchips wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:13 pm Let's assume in 30yrs time there are no Diesel or petrol engines about anymore, will all these taxes be scrapped? Not effing likely.

In fact we'll all be charged more. Someone will discover how harmful rubber tyres are, so we'll have pay for those entering London.
I've seen studies which say that EVs create greater amounts of small particles and waste materials due to their comparative mass, and I've seen studies that say no they don't. But what is true, regardless of what type of vehicle you own, they'll find some means to tax you to death for it.

Once they're no longer seeing much of a return for ULEZ, then it will be per mile, with x number of zones (cities, etc.) charging a premium, or some such bull-looks.

There is no way around it, it is a tax that will hurt those who least can afford to pay for it. Cleaners, nurses, essential workers who are working nights.
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mumbles87
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Re: ULEZ

Post by mumbles87 »

Hummer_I_mean_Hammer wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:39 am I've seen studies which say that EVs create greater amounts of small particles and waste materials due to their comparative mass, and I've seen studies that say no they don't. But what is true, regardless of what type of vehicle you own, they'll find some means to tax you to death for it.

Once they're no longer seeing much of a return for ULEZ, then it will be per mile, with x number of zones (cities, etc.) charging a premium, or some such bull-looks.

There is no way around it, it is a tax that will hurt those who least can afford to pay for it. Cleaners, nurses, essential workers who are working nights.
Road charging will come in one day or milage charging

I'd say 1p a mile would be fair 10,000 miles per year £100 tax

More miles more tax
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3times
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Re: ULEZ

Post by 3times »

mumbles87 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:59 am

If you are willing to spend £400,000 on legal fees to fight something that will improve air quality and not affect that many of your borough you got to ask yourself is that the best use a public money? Surely you could use that to assist members of your borough affected change cars?
Same can be said with the £130m that it is costing for the new cameras - put it towards a proper scrappage scheme not the half assed one that is being suggested. Make sure that everyone with a non compliant vehicle can get a compliant one.
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mumbles87
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Re: ULEZ

Post by mumbles87 »

3times wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:48 am Same can be said with the £130m that it is costing for the new cameras - put it towards a proper scrappage scheme not the half assed one that is being suggested. Make sure that everyone with a non compliant vehicle can get a compliant one.
But without the cameras how is it enforced
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Re: ULEZ

Post by 3times »

mumbles87 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:59 am But without the cameras how is it enforced
Won't need to enforce it if everyone has a compliant car :winker:

TBH I'm not against the scheme in principle, more the way it has been introduced and the lies that are coming from the mayor's office to justify it. I still believe that if reducing the emissions was the sole objective then the 'fine' was entering the zone should be greater, that is why I call it a money making scheme. I agree that road charging will come in and actually don't have too many issues with that as they who use the roads most pay more for it. Saying that the cost must be sensible and it must be countrywide so VED can be cancelled. Not sure about road charging on a regional/city basis only.

As for the scrappage scheme that has been mentioned - total waste of time as won't be accessible the most of the people that need it.
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Re: ULEZ

Post by chelmsfordhammer91 »

A scrappage scheme is good for those who were already looking to get a new vehicle anyway, but the majority won't switch to EV, ironing out tens of thousands for the sake of a couple of grand back.

I think the phasing out approach is fine, 2030 or whatever is a long enough timescale for a competent group to get the necessary infrastructure in place. I personally can't see it happening though until there are a lot more charge points.

Once electric vehicles are mostly the norm, it will be interesting to see how electricity gets taxed to account for the loss in revenue from petrol/diesel.
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Re: ULEZ

Post by mumbles87 »

chelmsfordhammer91 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:34 am A scrappage scheme is good for those who were already looking to get a new vehicle anyway, but the majority won't switch to EV, ironing out tens of thousands for the sake of a couple of grand back.

I think the phasing out approach is fine, 2030 or whatever is a long enough timescale for a competent group to get the necessary infrastructure in place. I personally can't see it happening though until there are a lot more charge points.

Once electric vehicles are mostly the norm, it will be interesting to see how electricity gets taxed to account for the loss in revenue from petrol/diesel.
But this isn't about ev

Scrap your car and can get a second hand petrol from 2006 no? Meets the standard

ULEZ scrappage scheme – how much can I save?
If you and your vehicle qualify for the ULEZ scrappage scheme you can make a £1,000 saving on a new motorcycle or moped and £2,000 on a new car. The vehicle you scrap must not meet ULEZ standards and you must replace it with a vehicle that does.

People with wheelchair accessible vehicles (WAVs), meanwhile, will get £5,000 towards the cost of a new vehicle if they scrap their old one.

So £2000

Only ofc if you can get on the scheme but £2000 and how much can you get a 2006 petrol for? £600 some coming in at but they are ofc prob not the best

£2000


http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details ... obcid=soc3

7 seater family car

Now I appreciate it's a lot of money but If you get £2000 to scrap surely you can use for this?

Or we buy any car the car ofc they won't be worthless to people up north
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3times
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Re: ULEZ

Post by 3times »

Unfortunately the eligibility for the scrappage scheme is quite limited

The ULEZ car and motorcycle scrappage scheme is for Londoners on certain low income or disability benefits with cars, motorcycles and wheelchair accessible vehicles that do not meet the ULEZ emissions standard.

To apply, you must live within one of the 32 London boroughs or the City of London and receive one or more of the following benefits:

Universal Credit
Armed Forces Independence Payment
Attendance Allowance
Carer's Allowance
Child Tax Credit
Constant Attendance Allowance
Disability Living Allowance
Employment and Support Allowance
Housing Benefit
Income Support
Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit
Jobseeker's Allowance
Pension Credit
Personal Independence Payment
Severe Disablement Allowance
War Pensioners' Mobility Supplement
Working Tax Credit
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Re: ULEZ

Post by chelmsfordhammer91 »

mumbles87 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:37 am
ULEZ scrappage scheme – how much can I save?
If you and your vehicle qualify for the ULEZ scrappage scheme you can make a £1,000 saving on a new motorcycle or moped and £2,000 on a new car. The vehicle you scrap must not meet ULEZ standards and you must replace it with a vehicle that does.
Sorry, thought this bit meant new as in brand new (not second hand).
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mumbles87
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Re: ULEZ

Post by mumbles87 »

chelmsfordhammer91 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:54 am Sorry, thought this bit meant new as in brand new (not second hand).
I believe it doesnt have to be new

used to be new with the scrap scheme of old for older cars few years ago (not ulez)

£2000 towards a second hand car doesnt seem bad but not enough people covered by that

interested to see which of the 15% of cars in london who dont meet the standard can benefit from this

only real issue is people outside the borough like DL niece for example will now not be able to visit friends in upminster without paying £12.50

one thing I do hate being used to base it is people (ive read on twitter and people who went to the meeting) "I wont be able to visit my wifes parents grave due to this" im sorry? are you going daily? weekly? monthly to this grave? if it was daily or even weekly maybe... jesus h christ what a reason to object to something..
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3times
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Re: ULEZ

Post by 3times »

mumbles87 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:00 am
only real issue is people outside the borough like DL niece for example will now not be able to visit friends in upminster without paying £12.50
Or ones like my mum that will probably have to give up work and most social life because, as she says, I've have the car since new Over 20 years) so driving anything else would be like learning to drive again. Realise its personal choice on her part re work etc but she doesn't qualify for the scrappage scheme so would have to sell a perfectly good car and spend more money on something that wasn't needed.

ULEZ only works for city centres/inner London boroughs, not for urban areas, as DL's niece example proves. The air quality in the outer boroughs is generally pretty now so any reduction will only be minimal. Back to the money making scheme again.
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Re: ULEZ

Post by chelmsfordhammer91 »

If the money generated goes into a pot specifically for environmental improvement strategies then fair enough.

If it is just lumped in with everything else then it's a bit hypocritical.

Even those who don't drive will be impacted. My in-law's firm have most of their work in London so the costs are added to their invoice (along with the increased parking cost to get to certain sites etc.) and that cost is then passed on and on until it's the consumer or service user that foots the bill.
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Re: ULEZ

Post by mumbles87 »

chelmsfordhammer91 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:21 am If the money generated goes into a pot specifically for environmental improvement strategies then fair enough.

If it is just lumped in with everything else then it's a bit hypocritical.

Even those who don't drive will be impacted. My in-law's firm have most of their work in London so the costs are added to their invoice (along with the increased parking cost to get to certain sites etc.) and that cost is then passed on and on until it's the consumer or service user that foots the bill.
it will go into the pot of TFL whichs long term aim is to be carbon neutral by 2030 I believe

https://www.london.gov.uk/press-release ... een-energy

they will just say the money will be used to help this move
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Re: ULEZ

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https://www.mylondon.news/news/south-lo ... 299931.amp

How is this news?

Some Buisness owner in South London moaning that he has 9 cars and 6 aren't ulez .. go deeper into it he collects cars that going to be scrapped.... So you don't need 9 cars

And why not use the 3 cars that are ulez as your daily cars and treat yourself if you want to take the others out? If your worried that much

He said: “ Nissan Micra which has done 16,000 miles, and bizarrely it’s non-compliant. It could do another 80 or 90,000 miles. But yet you can go and buy a 50 grand Tesla, which is completely uneconomic to put on the road.”

This bit above takes the biscuit of stupidest things I have ever read. His first point massively valid that car could go on ages but what a rubbish example of a replacement a 50k car

You don't need to spend 50k to replace it. You don't even need to spend 5k. Considering his cars are older models and he likes them he could easily drive a 15 year old petrol that is ulez

How is this news? Utterly pathetic reporting lol

Fully appreciate that people are against it and a lot have valid reasons

Owning 9 cars isn't a valid reason when you have 3 cars that will fit your needs to get to work. A hobby is a choice..if someone can't afford to work because of it that has My sympathy

This guy? Pfft
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Re: ULEZ

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

mumbles87 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:02 am This guy? Pfft
Can't really argue with his closing statement -

He added: “I respect the fact that they want lower emissions, but why should you be able to pay a tax to still poison people? Why are you paying money for that to happen? You should either have it and not pay or ban it, not be able to pay to use it. It's basically saying that people are getting really ill and dying and they've got a poor quality of life, but if you give us £12.50 it's actually acceptable.”

It is a tax grab, nothing less.
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Re: ULEZ

Post by Greatest Cockney Rip Off »

chelmsfordhammer91 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:34 am A scrappage scheme is good for those who were already looking to get a new vehicle anyway, but the majority won't switch to EV, ironing out tens of thousands for the sake of a couple of grand back.
After the last scrappage debacle, encouraging everyone to get a diesel car, I'd wary of any type of government run scrappage scheme.
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Re: ULEZ

Post by Whufc06 »

Once they've got your money for ULEZ they'll move on to charging you per mile you drive
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Re: ULEZ

Post by chelmsfordhammer91 »

Hummer_I_mean_Hammer wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:03 am It is a tax grab, nothing less.
That's how I see it. Similar to the sugar tax and taxes on cigarettes and booze.

However, they can't really ban driving in the ULEZ zones unless the public transport side of it can cater for the demand (I've no knowledge of whether this is already do-able or how far off we are).

They use it as a deterrent to bring emissions down, but they'd be more screwed if everyone was compliant and they lost the revenue stream.

It'll be interesting to see how they'll recoup this revenue once nearly everyone is driving electric.
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Re: ULEZ

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

chelmsfordhammer91 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:34 am That's how I see it. Similar to the sugar tax and taxes on cigarettes and booze.

However, they can't really ban driving in the ULEZ zones unless the public transport side of it can cater for the demand (I've no knowledge of whether this is already do-able or how far off we are).

They use it as a deterrent to bring emissions down, but they'd be more screwed if everyone was compliant and they lost the revenue stream.

It'll be interesting to see how they'll recoup this revenue once nearly everyone is driving electric.
Be very simple to roll out.

I trialled (to see whether it was worth it as my milage at the time was minimal) an insurance gizmo, plug it into the car and it monitors mileage, paid for the insurance per mile driven.

In the end and as I started to do more miles, but mostly as I didn't like the idea of being watched, I moved back to the traditional type of insurance policy.

Was a case of literally getting the gizmo posted to you and plugging it in. Will be similar – pay per mile road use – with fines if you don’t install it.
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Re: ULEZ

Post by RichieRiv »

westham,eggyandchips wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:13 pm Let's assume in 30yrs time there are no Diesel or petrol engines about anymore, will all these taxes be scrapped? Not effing likely.

In fact we'll all be charged more. Someone will discover how harmful rubber tyres are, so we'll have pay for those entering London.
No, but the camera and monitoring infrastructure will be in place so that they can implement a 'by the mile' charge to motorists.

Kahn is a Grade-A **** that couldn't run a bath.
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