⚽ Tottenham Hotspur 2-0 West Ham Utd (19/2/23)

[goa127]

The second half was very poor but the initial 20 minutes was pretty good. We were playing more of a 352 than the usual one up, although Antonio seemed to think that was his cue to take it easy. Souchek was very effective in that spell winning tackles in advanced areas. A word on Downes. He's very popular on here but why? what does he do other than play sideways. I'd rather see lanzini or fornals in there. Ogbonna seemed to suffer from wanderlust yesterday leaving gaps in the centre. That may have been due to following Harry Kane deep, but surely that should have been left to Rice? A word on Rice and Aguerd. I doubt either of these two was 100% fit and it showed particularly late on , a toxic combination to assist a woeful finish to the game

[westham,eggyandchips]

The only thing West Ham and Spurs fans agree on is how poor they are defensively.

Yet Forster, Dier et al won't have had an easier game this season.

[Whufc06]

Some people have been fooled into thinking that just because Soucek and Downes weren't sitting on our CB's toes first half that it wasn't 3 holding midfielders. In many way it doesn't matter where you position players on a pitch, it's their abilities that dictate the flow and intent of the performance. If you needed to shore things up defensively and you played 5 strikers but put them all in defensive areas you are not going to get the same result as playing 5 defensive minded players there as their natural thought and ability isn't in that area of the pitch.

I think we have to look to get Lanzini back in the side now, our possession of the ball is shocking. Against Forest I'd be tempted (if all fit) to go

Fabianski

Coufal
Zouma
Aguerd
Emerson

Rice
Paqueta

Bowen
Lanzini
Fornals

Ings

[Nick_]

Is relegation the end of the world? No. Is it desirable? Also no.

I do think that our issue is, simply, chance conversion. On defence alone, we would not be in the relegation mix (though the pool is still very wide). But we score very little and seem to have few options. This has been a problem waiting to happen if you look at the spread of goalscorers the last two seasons:

2021/22: Bowen (12),Antonio (10), Benrahma (8), Fornals (6), Soucek (5), Lanzini (5).
2021/20: Soucek (10), Antonio (10), Lingard (9), Bowen (8), Fornals (5).

We've been scoring goals over the past two seasons, but they've been spread over a wide variety of players. Now, over halfway through this season, Antonio has just 2 PL goals, Bowen 4, Scamacca and Benrahma 3. We have 10 different PL goalscorers so far, compared to 16 last season and 15 the season before. Bla bla bla: we need to be more clinical. The Benrahma miss summed it up for me – a very presentable opportunity, smashed about three metres wide from a few yards out.

I don't think there's an obvious solution (I think Chelsea are experiencing this same issue right now, where it doesn't seem to matter how decently they play cos they can't buy a goal). Antonio can't be relied upon for more than 10 (max) goals a season, which is why we brought in Scamacca and now Ings. But really, it's the contributions from Benrahma, Bowen, Fornals, Soucek, Paqueta etc that are being missed. When you play with Antonio as a lone striker, you're relying upon the attacking midfield players to drift into that No.10 position and support him. This season, nobody's finishing looks up to it. I think it's a confidence issue, as much as anything – and I do think that a really strong performance could still turn things around. Scratching draws is good for our momentum, but it will take a 3-0 win to really build up some steam.

[Hockley Hammer]

Spot on Nick

We should have scored with our first attack. Nicely set up but a totally pathetic finish.

So true about Benrahma,Bowen,Fornals,Soucek & Paqueta. Not one of these players has had a run of form more that a couple of games all season.

Every game you think about a new mix and one or two will have a decent game but the next game totally ordinary performances and another switch.

These players were the heartbeat of our good form, but it has just not happened this season apart from the odd short spell.

That is not enough in the Premier League.

[jabbaglob123]

Can anyone tell me why Scamacca was sitting on the bench when we were losing in an important match. It's baffling

[Col Hammer]

Can anyone tell me why Scamacca was sitting on the bench when we were losing in an important match. It's baffling

Can only imagine he wasn't fit enough, and didn't want to risk him picking up any niggles ahead of next week
Maybe he would have had a run out 'if' we were winning to ease back in, but chasing the game at 2 down was too risky

Whatever the reason hopefully a full weeks training and he is fit & raring to go next week!

[kitthehammer]

Can anyone tell me why Scamacca was sitting on the bench when we were losing in an important match. It's baffling

probably the same reason that half the matches we play we have two keepers on the bench.
TBH i don't think Scamacca was ready at all and was never going to play. No, i don't know why moyes would bother putting him on the bench either.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

Some people have been fooled into thinking

Agree with all of that, and I like that team as well

[Crouchend_Hammer]

One other thing, IMHO Oliver Skipp is a decent player and will get better
No excuse for how badly we played, or how we set up, but Skipp would get in our team alongside Rice, no problem

[Ozza]

Can anyone tell me why Scamacca was sitting on the bench when we were losing in an important match. It's baffling

Not fit enough, the manager said so before kick off

[Aztec Hammer]

Not fit enough, the manager said so before kick off

Why was he on the bench then if he was unable to come on is the point jabba is making I believe.

[Cuenca 'ammer]

posted also on the C & B Army thread but so accurate it deserves a duplication here

https://www.kumb.com/report.php?id=121414

here's about as good and concise conclusion from yesterdays match report by Wilko

David Moyes 3/10

This report is full of anger at the manager, and whilst the more stalwart fans who have tired of negativity will be put off by this, today is a day he is fully deserving of very strong criticism. If you cannot criticise him when he's bad, there is no credible defence when he isn't. Cowardly might be strong, but he appears unable to find attacking solutions nor balance attack with defence. The back five has been accepted because the team needs to find form, but pushing a four in front of it that had Downes, Rice and Soucek was not just horrible to watch, but horribly inept.

Bowen was given far too much to do, Antonio lacked any support and Tottenham were welcomed to attack. They may not have been at their best this season, but if you give an attack that much, they are going to eventually find gaps, beat the defenders and score.

The delay on the substitutions was equally as criminal as the initial selection and allowing it to continue until the first goal. That was 15 minutes of time sacrificed to make a very obvious decision. We could all predict who the two going off were, who the two coming on would be, and it took that long. He deserved to see his team concede so suddenly after it as punishment for his dithering.


It is this, more than the actual results, that mean he should not continue as manager next season.

[master]

In which case it's better that Mubama was there. I mean, Casey was thrown on there after all.

Scamacca warmed up for 5 mins at least. Telling me he couldn't play 10 mins?

He's just making crap up as he goes.

[sendô]

19 goals scored in 23 league games this season. That's the same as Southampton. Fewer than Bournemouth.

By contrast our 29 conceded is the lowest in the bottom half, and is the same as Brighton, and fewer than Brentford, Fulham or even our opponents yesterday Tottenham.

It's only one more than Man Utd, who I read are apparenty in the title race now.

Our issue is not the defence, generally speaking, it is our inability to score goals. So quite why dithering Dave thinks that the solution is to sit deep and not concede whilst only allowing 2 or 3 players to venture forwards is going to consistently win us games is beyond me.

[Aztec Hammer]

When you break it down, to some degree or another he must think the following things:

- Ogbonna can't play in a 4 man defence (completely agree)
- Kehrer can't play in a 4 man defence (probably agree but that's more a case of I don't think he can play at all personally)
- Emerson can't play in a 4 man defence (don't particularly agree)

If that is indeed the case, then it's a massive indictment on him for signing Kehrer and Emerson in the first place, as well as completely baffling as to why he didn't replace Dawson.

The moment Zouma is back, we must go to a 4 with him partnering Aguerd.

[szola]

19 goals scored in 23 league games this season. That's the same as Southampton. Fewer than Bournemouth.

By contrast our 29 conceded is the lowest in the bottom half, and is the same as Brighton, and fewer than Brentford, Fulham or even our opponents yesterday Tottenham.

It's only one more than Man Utd, who I read are apparenty in the title race now.

Our issue is not the defence, generally speaking, it is our inability to score goals. So quite why dithering Dave thinks that the solution is to sit deep and not concede whilst only allowing 2 or 3 players to venture forwards is going to consistently win us games is beyond me.

To be fair, I think he has said why, on numerous occasions.

His logic is that the best part of our game, at the moment, is our defensive record.
So we'll try as well as we can to keep that record, whilst doing small changes to other parts of our game.

Going with three central defenders is one of those changes, going with Emerson + Coufal another, placing Bowen in different positions a third.

As long as your priority is defence first, then how to score quickly before defending again, you'll end up with how we play and have played for a number of years now.

And we knew this football was coming the moment he walked through the door. Both first and second time round.

[Whufc06]

Not fit enough, the manager said so before kick off

He actually said he's not got many minutes in him but that he'd use him if needed. 1 or 2 nil down obviously doesn't constitute enough of a need for arguably our best striker.

[EvilC]

We should have scored with our first attack. Nicely set up but a totally pathetic finish.

A bouncing ball which he is striking from outside the area goes just wide and it's a "totally pathetic finish"? It's hardly a tap in.

[Hockley Hammer]

A bouncing ball which he is striking from outside the area goes just wide and it's a "totally pathetic finish"? It's hardly a tap in.

He controlled it and had time and space to hit the target. You hit the target and the keeper saves it that is one thing to miss the target is just not good enough when you have the chance. That is why we are where we are this season. We've been doing it all season and then concede goals like we did yesterday.