⚽ West Ham Utd 1-1 Aston Villa (12/3/23)

[El brooko79]

So a goal line scramble that could only ever result in 1 goal could feasibly give you an enormous xG if 4 or 5 shots are registered by the attacking team.

Pretty horrendous oversight in that stat really.

I'm sure on a macro scale it gives a decent indication of who the best attacking sides are and who is creating the most chances but for a one off game it probably shouldn't hold the weight that it has done.

It's an interesting guide but it certainly isn't factual.
I don't really like tangible stats being created from a subjective opinion on how good a chance was.

Suggesting two chances are the same and would result in the same outcome.
The amount of time, space, weather, favoured foot all effect the chance. That's even before it's dropping to Coufal instead of Ings for example.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

this article was posted in the other thread and is bang on the money IMHO

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... on-battle/

[il_martello_di_genovesi]

this article was posted in the other thread and is bang on the money IMHO

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... on-battle/

Well, he certainly agrees with a lot you said. Hard to argue with any of it tbh.

[woodywoody]

Although the score was not what we needed, I thought we played more positively than in previous games. Bowen and Benhrama actually took players on and created chances as normally on the main they would run turn round ,shield and pass back (The Moyes..Don't loose the ball tactics)
I would of changed Ings a bit sooner as although trying, he wasn't in the build ups much or making or taking chances.
The main player who was tribble in the first half was kehrere and not good enough from what ive seen positioning wise and concentration.
Let's hope the board got it right not getting rid of Moyes before the world cup becouse you never know what team will turn up week to week.
I keep waiting to see the evvery game now is a cup final response...In Moyes we used to trust.

[Wilko1304]

Generally, attacking players need to have others near them to be optimally effective.

It isn't just an Ings issue.

I get it, but, you know, there's differences.

I meant in a way quite different to usual, because of the limitations of Ings. I would also expect our midfield to do a better job and that our full backs could defend, too. I'm just saying it's a bit harsh to give that full blame to Bowen.

[RaddyKovac]

I'm currently in hospital, my sleeping pattern has gone to pot, and so it wouldn't be in any way fair to read too much into this.

However, having looking forward to it all day, I managed to fall asleep at least once in both halves of this game.

I've watched it back subsequently and I'm frankly not surprised. We need to do better.

Players AND manager.

[goa127]

Yeah but Scamacca doesn't run at all. He just stands in the centre circle sighing over and over, doing the Italian hand gesture thing whilst he's on his phone texting his new agent trying to get a move back to Italy.

So unprofessional.

You forgot pushing opposition players over instead of tackling

[fjthegrey]

I get it, but, you know, there's differences.

I meant in a way quite different to usual, because of the limitations of Ings. I would also expect our midfield to do a better job and that our full backs could defend, too. I'm just saying it's a bit harsh to give that full blame to Bowen.

I understand what you meant mate. I do think the general point stands though, and it's a clear symptom of the ills of our tactical setup.

Ings needs more support than the others, but they all need it if we have any intention of lifting their performances to something resembling a ceiling.

[MB]

Another excellent bit of analysis by this young lad

[West Ham Matt]

Another excellent bit of analysis by this young lad

I'm sorry, but it is not how Villa set up that effected us, it is how we are made to play by Moyes that effects us.

I'm tired of the over analytical world we live in in football. Not every thing can be optimal.

If my auntie had b*llocks she'd be my uncle and all that but the common dominator for our woes is our tactics, not the oppositions.

We need to make teams react to us, not us constantly and passively, reacting to them.

In football there is nothing new under the sun. 15 wins in 53 games ain't because of genius opposition set ups, it's because of terrible management by Moyes

[MB]

There may be a vacuum between your ears Matt but we don't play in one...

[West Ham Matt]

There may be a vacuum between your ears Matt but we don't play in one...

[Colours never run]

We worry more about the opposition rather than concentrate more on what we can do as a Team. Hate that mentality. Almost feels like we do half the work on behalf of the opposition, neutering our own game in the hope it might prevent theirs. We play like we literally have lost our b*llocks.

[MB]

While I agree to an extent CNR, this isn't the 1990s with 'Arry and "just go out and play boys" or Big Sam and his "deplete, punish and destroy".

Everyone is looking to get an advantage and if a team sets up to complete exploit what you are trying to do then you have to try and offset it. That thread explains very clearly why they were able to do it and why we didn't help ourselves early on (Moyes getting the shape and pressing instructions wrong and the players not working hard enough).

You cannot look at us and our tactics in isolation (which happens too often IMO).

I do agree that Moyes probably gets too fixated with the defensive side, but it is a big part of the modern game. It is basically what Dyche has done since he took over at Everton for example. My biggest worry is we are not very good at it hence the lack of clean sheets. Either Moyes has the system wrong, the players aren't working hard enough to make it work or probably the truth which is a bit of both.

The lack of goals is killing us, but so is the lack of clean sheets. Both ends need a rethink.

[simon hammer]

Another excellent bit of analysis by this young lad

He's really embraced social media speak. Pivot, double pivot (what is this...friends?), constant overload, progression.

If his tactical analysis is so good, why hasn't Moyes approached him to be our tactical analyst?

He probably has some good points, especially about not working hard enough without the ball, but it's just the usual "twitter expert" guff imo.

[Sloop John B]

but it's just the usual "twitter expert" guff imo.

I also don't understand the "double pivot" and aren't a particular fan of the new football speak

But it comes over as articulate and balanced and is backed up with clear examples, so I'd take it over a lot of the "kumb expert" guff most days of the week

[MB]

He's really embraced social media speak. Pivot, double pivot (what is this...friends?), constant overload, progression.

If his tactical analysis is so good, why hasn't Moyes approached him to be our tactical analyst?

He probably has some good points, especially about not working hard enough without the ball, but it's just the usual "twitter expert" guff imo.

No he is just a young lad who has done courses in coaching and therefore speaks the way coaches speak these days. It is also helpful in a medium like twitter where you are limited in the number of characters and therefore speaking "dad" football language is harder.

In summary, they played two players in deeper midfield (double pivot) who we were not marking well so they could play through any pressure we applied to the keeper and centre halves.

Their wide players played more narrow leaving us the choice of bringing our wide players in to deal with them and exposing the fullbacks to their fullbacks or leaving them two on one (overload) or worse dragging our full backs inside.

In even simpler terms, Moyes got schooled early on but the lack of effort from the players didn't help.

P.S I'm a grumpy 40 something so all this language is new to me, but it is worth a bit of effort to access some of the decent content out there. I do agree that there is also a lot of guff, especially on Twitter.

[El brooko79]

If his tactical analysis is so good, why hasn't Moyes approached him to be our tactical analyst?

Imo we must have the tactical awareness to see how a team will play (villa usually use a 4222 when Bailey starts) and what was happening in a game. There were clearly tactical and formation issues.

But the manager takes this data on board and believes his approach is best.
We're we the better team in the second half - yes. Did we do enough - no.

I don't know how you can see what happened in that game - our CF getting no shots and our attacking midfielder making 9 passes, getting exposed down the flank and not take action.

But really the persistent odd choices and failure to react are probably one of the biggest complaints some fans have.
So its nothing new.
Watkins had the best chance to win it probably and had he done it wouldn't have been a surprise.

Bar a bit of pressing and shape our tactics pretty much wiped out Soucek and Ings meaning we had 9 players. That's before plenty of players had a mare.
Maybe a point was a good result.

[MB]

But really the persistent odd choices and failure to react are probably one of the biggest complaints some fans have.
So its nothing new.
Watkins had the best chance to win it probably and had he done it wouldn't have been a surprise.

Bar a bit of pressing and shape our tactics pretty much wiped out Soucek and Ings meaning we had 9 players. That's before plenty of players had a mare.
Maybe a point was a good result.

He does react as that Twitter thread shows. He changed how we defended without making a sub or an obvious change and it nullified them.

In terms of attacking, that 4222 of theirs meant we’d get no joy through the middle. Hence why Benrahma saw so much of the attacking play and ultimate was the one taking the shots as that is where the space was due to their fullbacks pushing on.

Their high line also meant there was space in behind, but we are bloody dreadful at exploiting that even with Ings and Bowen who should have had a field day given the runs they like to make. Unfortunately we lacked the player who can hit those passes and they’d probably have to have been in Benrahma’s role to have the time and space to do it.

We could have dropped Soucek, but Fornals or Lanzini would have had little joy against two holding players so he decided to go with Soucek to try and press them in their build up instead (which didn’t really work).

If Cornet was fitter he could have come on earlier… and been caught offside another dozen times.

It is all well and good saying go out and impose ourselves more, but what we are as an attacking team is still a mystery to me and the execution has mostly been piss poor.

To make one thing work, we seem to have to break another.

[brownout]

If Cornet was fitter he could have come on earlier… and been caught offside another dozen times.

Or we could have played him in his proper position, let him run with the ball and played a real centre forward up front.