⚽ West Ham Utd 1-0 Southampton: (2/4/23)
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- funky chicken
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
I thought Paqueta really grew into the game more in the 2nd half. In the 1st half, he was okay. But frustrated me at times how cheaply he sometimes gave the ball away.
One thing I do respect about him though is he never shies away from a challenge. Something quite a lot of players would happily do. He has a bit of bite to his game.
On the whole it was one of his better games, but whenever you go home from a game, you do sometimes leave with the feeling you wanted a little bit more from him. Maybe it’s the price tag we paid for him. For £50m you want the best player on the pitch, the star of the show. And from what I’ve seen from him up until now, I’d say we paid double what he’s really worth. Though that’s not the player’s fault.
One thing I do respect about him though is he never shies away from a challenge. Something quite a lot of players would happily do. He has a bit of bite to his game.
On the whole it was one of his better games, but whenever you go home from a game, you do sometimes leave with the feeling you wanted a little bit more from him. Maybe it’s the price tag we paid for him. For £50m you want the best player on the pitch, the star of the show. And from what I’ve seen from him up until now, I’d say we paid double what he’s really worth. Though that’s not the player’s fault.
- Aztec Hammer
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
The problem is David Moyes continues to insist on playing Tomas Soucek - and in the nominal 10 role at that - despite having arguably the best CDM in the country and another player who is ‘excelling in the destroyer role’ as you put it.the pink palermo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:55 am
The problem of course is nobody is creating very much at all, hence the battering of Tommy Soucek........Benny disciples have gone a touch quiet recently mind you.......
It’s absolute overkill of the defensive aspect of midfield play at the expense of anything resembling creativity and playmaking.
Simple solutions. Either play the footballer who runs rings around him in Manu Lanzini, or if you retain doubts over his ability to impact certain opponents, play the more robust Pablo Fornals, who also runs rings around him.
That our manager steadfastly refuses to do this speaks volumes about the way he sees the game.
Last edited by Aztec Hammer on Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
Why is that a reason to dislike him? A reason to dislike Sullivan or the agent, fine, but him? Makes zero sense. Benrahma is also favoured over Fornals by Moyes, so it seems like you might be more bothered by it than Moyes is. As I said, it’s boring debating Benrahma with you if it’s just a genuine dislike and for something that isn’t even his fault. He linked up really well with Emerson Yesterday in a dull game.the pink palermo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:16 am Yep, I don't like him, don't like the way he was foisted on the Manager, his initial loan being converted into a permanent deal as the price we paid to shift Haller, just so an agent could earn.
Online
Richarlison €58m
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Raheem Sterling €56m
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Cristian Romero €50m
Matheus Nunes €45m
Lucas Paquetá €42m
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
You'd hope that'd be the case, but if you look at similarly priced players nowadays none of them are ever the star of the show:funky chicken wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:18 am For £50m you want the best player on the pitch, the star of the show. And from what I’ve seen from him up until now, I’d say we paid double what he’s really worth. Though that’s not the player’s fault.
Richarlison €58m
Anthony Gordon €45m
Marc Cucurella €65m
Raheem Sterling €56m
Mykhaylo Mudryk €70m
Kalvin Phillips €49m
Cristian Romero €50m
Matheus Nunes €45m
Lucas Paquetá €42m
- BigFatSam
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
The consensus from saints fans is that we are terrible and they’re even worse . Pretty accurate I’d say.
- thamesideiron
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
Oh well...sign of a great team is to win when you play poorly...so I'll take that..
Lackadaisical,for some reason popped into my head watching yesterday,there's just a lack of movement,watch us from a throw in,everyone
just stands in the same position,the thrower usually the fullbacks has no one finding or running into space.bloody frustrating,we have this
sit tight mentality,no urgency,it stagnates us..we are very slow and predictable...
This I think comes from us not pressing ..teams that do it play with more passion and vibrancy about them...in a word we are Plodders,
makes me sad to admit that.
Micky before Ings ..if fit for me...much more of a problem for defenders...but then again I'd be looking at Micky left,and the choice of
Ings or Scamma more Central.
Paquetas getting it...Love Tomas to bits,give him my last fiver,but where and how we have Paq Playing alongside Dec,we need a Lanza,
first choice for me or Fornals,maybe Ben in there a bit of creativity....not this season,but would like Downes in Decs role, release Dec a bit
more..but maybe that ship has sailed...who knows.
We don't half give the ball away a lot..worst in league from what i've seen,funny often Paqueta,but he is trying the "Killer Ball" at times,
so not to much blame on him...I like him plays with that urgency/passion I mentioned.
Zou is an enigma..seems to amble around..is he alright I often think,but does the job,and we don't concede many,him and Nathan keep
the goals down,so all good there I spose.
Just get thru the s**t we are in this year,League wise,but Next year we really gotta change it up..
Lackadaisical,for some reason popped into my head watching yesterday,there's just a lack of movement,watch us from a throw in,everyone
just stands in the same position,the thrower usually the fullbacks has no one finding or running into space.bloody frustrating,we have this
sit tight mentality,no urgency,it stagnates us..we are very slow and predictable...
This I think comes from us not pressing ..teams that do it play with more passion and vibrancy about them...in a word we are Plodders,
makes me sad to admit that.
Micky before Ings ..if fit for me...much more of a problem for defenders...but then again I'd be looking at Micky left,and the choice of
Ings or Scamma more Central.
Paquetas getting it...Love Tomas to bits,give him my last fiver,but where and how we have Paq Playing alongside Dec,we need a Lanza,
first choice for me or Fornals,maybe Ben in there a bit of creativity....not this season,but would like Downes in Decs role, release Dec a bit
more..but maybe that ship has sailed...who knows.
We don't half give the ball away a lot..worst in league from what i've seen,funny often Paqueta,but he is trying the "Killer Ball" at times,
so not to much blame on him...I like him plays with that urgency/passion I mentioned.
Zou is an enigma..seems to amble around..is he alright I often think,but does the job,and we don't concede many,him and Nathan keep
the goals down,so all good there I spose.
Just get thru the s**t we are in this year,League wise,but Next year we really gotta change it up..
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
Well im home in Ireland after my 1st visit to our new ground. Delighted with the result, but it was an awful game of football.
Its a super stadium and i was surprised how good the view was from my seat but the atmosphere is terrible. We sang very little. In fact the only noise came from supporters near the saints fans. A couple of renditions of bubbles where my section was a line behind. The Bobby Moore stand did a few blank claret and blue army chants. I say blank cos, i had no idea whos claret and blue army. I dont think it was Moyes they were singing and i was 50 yards away from them. Im not sure whats wrong but maybe its the accustics or maybe we are just too far away from the pitch. Theres no edge. Saints supporters just wandering around and mingling with us before and after the game. That would never happen in the Boleyn. Its like we are over friendly now.
For me the back 4 and fab were safe. Rice was good but not spectacular. Paq isnt this Brazil number 10 we hoped for but he is hard working and loves a tackle. Im a fan of Tom Soucek but yesterday he was terrible. He reminded me of Paula Radcliffe in her last couple of miles in a marathon. Not his fault, its Moyes'. Benny and Emerson played well together without pulling up any trees. Bowen tried hard, but thats it. Finally i come to Ings. He just dosent suit and never will suit our system. Again not his fault but id put him 3rd in pecking order behind Antonio and Scamacca.
Overall, a wins a win but thats about it. We need to get safe and reboot for next season. As for the stadium, id prefer the Boleyn all day long.
Its a super stadium and i was surprised how good the view was from my seat but the atmosphere is terrible. We sang very little. In fact the only noise came from supporters near the saints fans. A couple of renditions of bubbles where my section was a line behind. The Bobby Moore stand did a few blank claret and blue army chants. I say blank cos, i had no idea whos claret and blue army. I dont think it was Moyes they were singing and i was 50 yards away from them. Im not sure whats wrong but maybe its the accustics or maybe we are just too far away from the pitch. Theres no edge. Saints supporters just wandering around and mingling with us before and after the game. That would never happen in the Boleyn. Its like we are over friendly now.
For me the back 4 and fab were safe. Rice was good but not spectacular. Paq isnt this Brazil number 10 we hoped for but he is hard working and loves a tackle. Im a fan of Tom Soucek but yesterday he was terrible. He reminded me of Paula Radcliffe in her last couple of miles in a marathon. Not his fault, its Moyes'. Benny and Emerson played well together without pulling up any trees. Bowen tried hard, but thats it. Finally i come to Ings. He just dosent suit and never will suit our system. Again not his fault but id put him 3rd in pecking order behind Antonio and Scamacca.
Overall, a wins a win but thats about it. We need to get safe and reboot for next season. As for the stadium, id prefer the Boleyn all day long.
- the pink palermo
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
The way he sees the game when sitting one place above bottom, that much is true.Aztec Hammer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:19 am The problem is David Moyes continues to insist on playing Tomas Soucek - and in the nominal 10 role at that - despite having arguably the best CDM in the country and another player who is ‘excelling in the destroyer role’ as you put it.
It’s absolute overkill of the defensive aspect of midfield play at the expense of anything resembling creativity and playmaking.
Simple solutions. Either play the footballer who runs rings around him in Manu Lanzini, or if you retain doubts over his ability to impact certain opponents, play the more robust Pablo Fornals, who also runs rings around him.
That our manager steadfastly refuses to do this speaks volumes about the way he sees the game.
We of course will never know how he would have approached games had we gotten off to a good start to the season.
That brings us back to recruitment, injuries and loss of form of players who had otherwise, for Moyes, done a good job.
Personally I'm relaxed , the football hasn't been pretty this season, the club is in lame duck mode with a probable change of ownership, manager and skipper all imminent imo.
On the positive I've seen WHU play two consecutive seasons in Europe, been to Denmark, Belgium, France, Romania, Croatia, Spain, Germany......and we could make it three in a row.
For that, I'll stick for now, happy to take the rough with the smooth.
What I'm very clear about is David Moyes 100% does not deserve the stick he gets on here from a few and on SM, he's earned the right to be given a bit of latitude.
Would I play Soucek in that advanced role ? Doubtful, but he is a vastly experienced manager, he's delivered a reasonable level of success by our recent standards, I can live with it for now.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
i'm just going to view this as the first of three matches. No it wasn't pretty but we got the job done and without too much effort.
I'm going to reserve judgement until after the fulham match and see how we did over 3 matches points wise. At the moment i don't care how pretty it is, we need points.
I'm going to reserve judgement until after the fulham match and see how we did over 3 matches points wise. At the moment i don't care how pretty it is, we need points.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
His best minutes seemed to be between Soucek going off and him eventually going off himself. He was more advanced of Rice and Downes and had more freedom.funky chicken wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:18 am I thought Paqueta really grew into the game more in the 2nd half. In the 1st half, he was okay. But frustrated me at times how cheaply he sometimes gave the ball away.
One thing I do respect about him though is he never shies away from a challenge. Something quite a lot of players would happily do. He has a bit of bite to his game.
On the whole it was one of his better games, but whenever you go home from a game, you do sometimes leave with the feeling you wanted a little bit more from him. Maybe it’s the price tag we paid for him. For £50m you want the best player on the pitch, the star of the show. And from what I’ve seen from him up until now, I’d say we paid double what he’s really worth. Though that’s not the player’s fault.
Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
We're garbage and it's not a football stadium. We don't have many songs, and many are fast, even Bubbles gets lost after a few blocks. As a result, many have given up singing.
That's not true. Well mannered away fans have always been treated with respect.
- Aztec Hammer
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
That's fine, but the irony for me is that I don't think he'd be as much of a lame duck if he just allowed himself to escape his tunnel vision when it came to blind spots like Tomas Soucek.the pink palermo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 1:45 pm Personally I'm relaxed , the football hasn't been pretty this season, the club is in lame duck mode with a probable change of ownership, manager and skipper all imminent imo.
On the positive I've seen WHU play two consecutive seasons in Europe, been to Denmark, Belgium, France, Romania, Croatia, Spain, Germany......and we could make it three in a row.
Would I play Soucek in that advanced role ? Doubtful, but he is a vastly experienced manager, he's delivered a reasonable level of success by our recent standards, I can live with it for now.
He seems to cause most of his own issues with the decisions he makes.
Hopefully it doesn't cost us the Conference League. There's still a hugely positive conclusion to all of this, even if it is beginning to feel more and more unlikely for me because of said decisions.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
That's not true. Well mannered away fans have always been treated with respect.
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Really? Gonna disagree with you there. We are both entitled to our opinions
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Really? Gonna disagree with you there. We are both entitled to our opinions
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
What was strange was how much louder the Saints fans were at times. To make an intimidating atmosphere you have to give it a go. It's more like a tennis match!djbubbles wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 1:31 pm We sang very little. In fact the only noise came from supporters near the saints fans. A couple of renditions of bubbles where my section was a line behind. The Bobby Moore stand did a few blank claret and blue army chants. I say blank cos, i had no idea whos claret and blue army. I dont think it was Moyes they were singing and i was 50 yards away from them. Im not sure whats wrong but maybe its the accustics or maybe we are just too far away from the pitch. Theres no edge.
- MB
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
He'd had got murdered in a deeper role yesterday with how hard Southampton pressed. Paqueta was struggling until Southampton had to focus more on attacking.hawkins_hammer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:42 am
What makes it more annoying is he brought on Downes and promptly stuck him where Soucek should have been. When Soucek is starting deeper in Europa he looks like his normal self.
Soucek is fine in the Europa as the teams are a lot more respectful so he gets time.
His passing isn't the issue; It is lack of ability to deal with the press and that makes him a liability deep in the league.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
They are decisions born of fear IMO. We sat deep yesterday due to fear of their press and pace. He then feels he has to pick Soucek as an out ball.Aztec Hammer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:53 pm That's fine, but the irony for me is that I don't think he'd be as much of a lame duck if he just allowed himself to escape his tunnel vision when it came to blind spots like Tomas Soucek.
He seems to cause most of his own issues with the decisions he makes.
It worked as they didn't bother us too much but again it came at the expense of our forward play. It worked yesterday, but so many times this season it hasn't.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
Just watching the game again, thought it might not be that bad on the box without the nerves and tension inside the stadium.
I was wrong we've just scored completely against the run of play.. An absolute disgusting start to a game at home against such poor opposition the lack of any intensity and attacking intent...
I was wrong we've just scored completely against the run of play.. An absolute disgusting start to a game at home against such poor opposition the lack of any intensity and attacking intent...
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
The thing for me is that there are so many occasions when I feel that we could make a much easier job of it if we had a bit of faith in ourselves and played a footballer instead.MB wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:25 pm They are decisions born of fear IMO. We sat deep yesterday due to fear of their press and pace. He then feels he has to pick Soucek as an out ball.
It worked as they didn't bother us too much but again it came at the expense of our forward play. It worked yesterday, but so many times this season it hasn't.
I think back to Carrow Road last season when we blew Norwich away with 64% of the ball and almost twice as many passes as them. 90% pass accuracy. The only difference personnel wise in terms of style to yesterday was that we Manu was in the middle giving us a three of him, Rice and Pablo.
Contrast those numbers and its 90% completion vs 73% on 679 passes vs 403. 64% possession vs 43%.
I do not believe Southampton are a team that is absolute levels above Norwich and needed to be feared. They are both bottom clubs of the respective Prem seasons. Norwich were worse sure but really both were quite rubbish sides.
There's no reason that Lanzini in there couldn't have helped us similarly dictate and dominate like he did in that game last season. But it doesn't even seem like it's a consideration unfortunately.
Over the course of this season, I am completely convinced that we'd have many more points on the board if we had played Lanzini or Fornals instead of Soucek. And even more so that it would have been much more enjoyable to watch. Both of these things would have served Moyes well and afforded him more grace from the fans, but at every turn he appears to choose the fear-based option instead, usually with a rather flimsy reasoning imo.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham Utd v Southampton: match thread
The opposition view: Southampton
https://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=137902
https://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=137902